How to make 'being surrounded by enemy crossbowmen' deadlier?

[irdeggman]

Sounds like you are putting CR 1 opponents against CR 10 PCs and being "surprised" that they can whip them up.

Basically the PCs would get no xp because of the lack of challenge in this encounter regardless.

That is why CR are at least an estimate of what is a good challenge and what is not.

If the opponents were level 7-9 that would open up more options for what they could do (including magic weapons and the like).

 

[shilsen]

If the opponents were level 7-9 that would open up more options for what they could do (including magic weapons and the like).

You don't even have to go that far. A bunch of 5th lvl NPCs could make life a little miserable for the PCs in that situation.

For example, let's make them Ftr2/Rog3s and, since they know they're going after the PCs, say they prepped accordingly with potions of Cat's Grace (putting them at a 20 Dex) and have the right Bane bolts. Since they apparently surprised the PCs, they can ready, and would be able to fire when the PCs decided to go. With W. Focus and Point Blank Shot, they're firing at +14 (+4 BAB, +5 Dex, +3 enhancement, +2 from feats) versus unarmored (according to the OP) and flatfooted PCs, doing damage of 1d8 + 4 + 2d6 bane + 2d6 sneak attack (22.5 pts of damage each). Against unarmored PCs they'll be hitting most of the time, which means if each PC takes 3 bolts he's starting the fight with nearly 70 points of damage on average. If the archers are instead smart enough to focus on 2-3 PCs, chances are you have a couple of dead PCs at this point.

And that's without me trying to get really nasty. You can do most of the stuff the OP wants, but you can't threaten 10th lvl PCs with 1st level mooks. And you shouldn't be able to, any more than Superman should be worried about a big guy with a crowbar.

 

[Nifft]

Over 20 posts, and no-one has mentioned e6 yet?

Shocked, -- N

 

[brehobit]

Change systems

Exactly. This is my one major problem with D&D. Low-level play tends to solve it...

 

[nittanytbone]

I'm running the Red Hand of Doom, which features lots of low-level mooks (Level 1-4 warriors) vs. PCs that get up towards 10th level.

I've kept the mooks dangerous by occasionally equipping them with poisoned ammo or Bane (human) ammo. A low level mook can afford a few doses of poison or a bane bolt or two with their starting wealth without having to cut back on essential gear too much, so its quite reasonable. A volley of poisoned bane ammo can be painful even for a mid-to-high level adventurer!

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

What do you think? Should PCs be able to just shrug off being peppered with crossbow bolts that have been trained on their throats and eyes and hearts by would-be capturers?

Yes, because the alternative is to tell them to just roll up new characters. You're the DM. You can kill the PC's as easy as drawing a breath. Lethal encounters are easy to create - it's more of a challenge to simply challenge without killing.

D&D is heroic fantasy. Always has been. You are correct in that it does not model well - at all - gritty realism. But if what you want in your game is PC's regularly fleeing for their lives, surrendering to mooks, etc. you're playing the wrong game, even the wrong genre.

I'd say the question is not how to get the PC's to take seriously threats by mooks with crossbows but WHY you want the PC's to be surrendering to mooks with crossbows. Where does your game session go from there?

 

[green slime]

I have no problem with heroes being heroes.

Heroes on occassion do strange and stupid things.

Like one of the player characters trying to rush a party of drow, in a similar situation, instead trying to negotiate his way out. (His words were "Why should I care about those hand crossbows? A couple of d4's isn't going to hurt me, I'm 8th level and have 65 hp...")

That character learnt about sleeping poison the hard way. Too bad the player has such a hard time remembering little details like this. At least the rest of us get to laugh at his antics.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Run an E6 game.

D&D at high levels isn't meant to model regular joes being able to hurt high level PCs.
If you want town gaurds to be able to even scratch PCs cap the max level in your world.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Over 20 posts, and no-one has mentioned e6 yet?

Run an E6 game.

Good call, Nifft.

Now tell us who's going to win the Superbowl.

 

[Nifft]

Now tell us who's going to win the Superbowl.

The Yankees.

"Or the Budweiser ads", -- N