Anyone used the group storytelling? I am abit uncomfortable with having my players tell me that a tower is standing over a hill and all. I did implement something similar for Play by Post using Google Wave though, since it's all narrative driven, but not sure if I can open up to that method on the table.
How useful is DMG2?
- Thread starter bagger245
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I haven't used the group storytelling in general, as of yet, but have occasionally tried to encourage my players taking a bit more control of the narrative in skill challenges and the like.
What I did try was a 'vignette' sequence - the players were all working for an alliance of Gods that was trying to stop a reawakened Primordial. The Council needed to decide whether to try and kill the Primordial, or just seal him away to be chained like the rest of his brethren. So I had the players each step into the shoes of one of the gods, and have a grand debate over what to do (providing a few motivations for each one so there would be room for discussion, but then letting their own desires play out from there.) Which ended up working great - it let them control this big campaign decision that needed to be made, and I think everyone enjoyed taking on the role of the Gods they served.
I would never have even thought of such a thing before reading the DMG2. But the more I play around with the ideas suggested into it, the more possibilities I see that never even occured to me in my last decade of playing and running games.
Nebulous
Legend
I've kind of used it in a very small, controlled manner. I wanted the players to come up with a third power faction in a town, a pirate crew, and they ended up settling on (with my input) a bastardized version of the Muppets with a Captain Kermit. It worked out pretty well and i would ask them again for certain things "they" would like to see happen.
In this case, the crazy muppet crew was ten times better an idea than the boring halflings i was going to run with.
Jack99
Adventurer
I have recently started using it a bit, so that at times, when a player asks to roll a check pertaining to some knowledge, and I do not have an answer ready, I ask the player to tell the rest of us.
Example:
Player: My character is wondering what kind of relationship there is between the goblin and kobold tribes in the area.
Me: Roll X and Y check DC Z (too lazy to look up what I decided)
Player: (after making the checks): I passed the checks, so, how is the relationship?
Me: You tell me
In this case, the player's decision (that goblins and kobolds have a very poor relationship and only work together when forced by a very powerful figure, such as a dragon) played right into my campaign, since that is what happening. But even if he had said that they absolutely hate each other and would never work together, I could still have made it work, either by creating an exceptional situation or by ruling that they do not know of the other race's involvement in the plot.
I guess my point is that so far, none of the small things I have allowed has caused any headaches, but I can't say that it will never happen.
I find it depends quite a bit on player expectations. I have some players who like to be told how the gameworld is, and when I ask them to tell me (eg after a successful knowledge check, or in relation to some aspect of their backstory) they are a bit hesitant. Others like to be much more proactive in shaping those aspects of the world they care about, which (at least for my players) mainly involves their PCs and things related to their PCs.
Based on my experience, I think the challenge is this: D&D relies fairly heavily on a degree of structure and pre-prep - you need 8 to 10 encounters for a level, and those encounters are in danger of being boring if you don't take care in designing them (for my group, the threatened boringness isn't "grind" - we haven't found any grind in 4e yet - but repetition and lack of thematic power). But too much structure and pre-prep can make it tricky to give players too much flexibility. I was re-reading Chapter 1 of the DMG2 this morning, and I found it interesting that in its example of implementing the pass/fail cycle (which I see as related to co-operative storytelling) it emphasised skill challenges rather than combat encounters. Skill challenges are probably easier to improvise, and to shape on the fly in response to player input, than are combat encounters.
Knightfall
World of Kulan DM
Hmm, I've been waffling about whether or not to get DMG 2. This thread makes me think that I should consider getting it. (I've just started reading the first DMG, so I haven't been in a huge hurry to get it.) However, I'm still not sure. 
Cyronax
Explorer
Hmm, I've been waffling about whether or not to get DMG 2. This thread makes me think that I should consider getting it. (I've just started reading the first DMG, so I haven't been in a huge hurry to get it.) However, I'm still not sure.
I think its a good book. If I had to pick only 5 books to limit my D&D collection to, as the DM, I'd choose the following:
- Phb1
- DMG1
- DMG2
- Monster Manual 2
- Dungeon Delve
This is the bedrock of establishing a baseline for DMing in 4e and just in general. Useful for expert and novice, IMO.
C.I.D.
Drammattex
First Post
DMG2 is my favorite D&D book of all time, finally replacing 2e's Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide for that slot.
The group storytelling bit is one of my favorite things about it. I think the key to group storytelling is to have the players fill in the blanks when you need them to.
I was rather unprepared for our game a few months ago, so when the players wanted details on the tomb they explored I asked them to tell me what things looked like. Brett asked about the columns supporting the ceiling and I threw the ball back in his court. He said, "The columns start solid at the base, then spiral upwards in twisting shapes, straightening out again; this represents the transformation of the changeling aelfs through time." We were all impressed with this fantastic detail that fit easily into the story. Brett explained that that week he'd seen a narwhal horn in a museum, and that image inspired him in his visualization of the pillars.
I think that's the kind of thing you want to do with group storytelling in general. A player asks about something you haven't detailed and don't have a good answer for. Oftentimes I think the players are visualizing the game world more acutely than the DM--you are, after all, managing a number of different things while running the game, whereas the players are seeing it through the eyes of their characters. So when a player is tasked with describing what her character sees, I find it's often something really grounded in the setting I've been trying to create AND it gives ME more, and better, ideas.
Henry
Autoexreginated
Having been DMing since the Reagan Presidency, I still found the DMG2 to be a great read. That said, it is more of a good advice and idea book than "lots of useful charts to use at the table" but the themed monsters, companion characters, the cooperative storytelling ideas, all were quite useful. One thing I REALLY want to see beefed up, either in an WotC product or a 3rd party book, are the "specialized training" ideas. They gave only three or four examples, but I'd love to see someone flesh out the idea so I don't have to go combing through all the magic items looking for workable suggestions.
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