How VTT Automation Exacerbates D&D Market Control

[Reynard]

I am currently trying to collect players for a PF2E campaign and have run into the problem where some potential players are balking because -- since I run games primarily on Fantasy Grounds -- PF2E does not enjoy the same automation support on that platform as 5E. This problem has happened with other games I have pitched, too (which is why I put this thread in General). Basically, because so many people play 5E, there are a lot of people honing the game's usability on FGU (and I presume other VTTs). That improves the VTT experience enough to create a barrier for entry for other games, even if they also have official support (examples include Pathfinder and Savage Worlds).

Note that I am talking about effort put in by the community, modders and such, not necessarily the companies themselves. I had a player, for example, who is otherwise all in to try PF2E refuse to do so on FGU because there is "no Rob Twohy" level of support. Don't get me wrong, that developer's automation for 5E is magical. But it bugs me that it has become necessary for so many players.

 

[Morrus]

Yep, it's an issue that small publishers struggle with. Supporting games on VTTs is a very expensive thing to do, and requires a lot of work (often as much as making the game in the first place--and you have to do that for multiple platforms, with more platforms arriving every month, and keep all that content updated as new material comes out). I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's beyond the means for many small publishers.

And there's DDB as well, of course. DDB is a $160M platform; nobody can match that.

We had a similar type of problem in the 4E days--it was really hard to sell player options in the 3PP market as they wouldn't be in the official character builder. We ended up having to design content without player options.

 

[payn]

Once you go Foundry you don't go back has been my experience. PF2 is not an easy game to forgo the automation. There are many an RPG that are tho. So, largely its going to rely on how heavy the ruleset is. Yes, naturally D&D is going to get a lion's share of the development. It is also difficult to go back to crank windows after having powered ones. For example, I find roll20 nearly intolerable now for a number of reasons.

Another point for Foundry is being able to do the work yourself, assuming you have the time and skill set to do this. I feel like Foundry will become the VTT set of the sleeve rollers. A lot of that work will roll down hill to folks who just want to use it. Though, you will need to be patient. Of course, many folks will just toss cash in the air and say "just automate me bro!"

 

[Reynard]

Once you go Foundry you don't go back has been my experience. PF2 is not an easy game to forgo the automation. There are many an RPG that are tho. So, largely its going to rely on how heavy the ruleset is. Yes, naturally D&D is going to get a lion's share of the development. It is also difficult to go back to crank windows after having powered ones. For example, I find roll20 nearly intolerable now for a number of reasons.

Another point for Foundry is being able to do the work yourself, assuming you have the time and skill set to do this. I feel like Foundry will become the VTT set of the sleeve rollers. A lot of that work will roll down hill to folks who just want to use it. Though, you will need to be patient. Of course, many folks will just toss cash in the air and say "just automate me bro!"

Right, but my point is that there is a feedback loop based on the dominance of 5E. More people will do the work because more people play 5E so more people will play 5E and therefore more people will do the work.

 

[payn]

Right, but my point is that there is a feedback loop based on the dominance of 5E. More people will do the work because more people play 5E so more people will play 5E and therefore more people will do the work.

I don't know what you can do about that besides grow other games or do the work yourself.

 

[Reynard]

I don't know what you can do about that besides grow other games or do the work yourself.

Me either. I think it is an inevitable consequence of the technology. Even as playing online will expand the player base, automation issues will shrink it again for not-D&D games. Not everyone cares about automation, of course, and not all games benefit equally from it. But for games with some built in complexity, some significant percentage of folks are going to just default to D&D because the work is already done.

 

[payn]

Me either. I think it is an inevitable consequence of the technology. Even as playing online will expand the player base, automation issues will shrink it again for not-D&D games. Not everyone cares about automation, of course, and not all games benefit equally from it. But for games with some built in complexity, some significant percentage of folks are going to just default to D&D because the work is already done.

I'd turn this around then I guess. Instead of looking at the tech situation look at the people situation. Hang in circles that like a myriad of games and are not picky about how to play them. This may seem like a new problem, but the only plays D&D because it has the best support idea has been around for decades. I've left a legion behind because of it.

 

[Reynard]

I'd turn this around then I guess. Instead of looking at the tech situation look at the people situation. Hang in circles that like a myriad of games and are not picky about how to play them. This may seem like a new problem, but the only plays D&D because it has the best support idea has been around for decades. I've left a legion behind because of it.

Honestly, the only reason I have played 5E D&D at all in the last, say, 5 years is because that's what my gaming circle )probably 2 dozen or so folks) gravitates toward. I think I am going to have to expand the circle again, which can be a frustrating process when you aren't offering D&D.

 

[payn]

Honestly, the only reason I have played 5E D&D at all in the last, say, 5 years is because that's what my gaming circle )probably 2 dozen or so folks) gravitates toward. I think I am going to have to expand the circle again, which can be a frustrating process when you aren't offering D&D.

Yeap. Some folks might interpret this as a need new friends issue, but I usually look at it as a need more friends one.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I use Roll20, and I never play 5E. The only support you have to have for full Roll20 use is a system-specific PC sheet in their system, and that doesn't even have to be from the publisher; people build and modify them all the time.

And technically, you don't even have to have the sheet if the system doesn't use non-standard dice. Or you can use non-standard dice if you trust your players.

Roll20 has sheets in place for games that are still in Kickstarter.

VTT is the future.