How would societies be different if I threw genetics out the window?

Something I haven't seen discussed thus far is the issue of inheritance.

In human cultures the primary relationships, even the genetic ones, are primarily economic.

Racism is most frequently tied to economics and in family law genetics serve as a means of determining economic responsibility if that.

Marriage may or may not have any reproductive or emotional qualities depending on the culture it most certainly will have economic ones.

So how do you determine a hierarchy of economic relationships when the primary determiners of our social setting, sex, appearance, race, emotion, and genetics, no longer apply?

At the very least you are going to end up with a very adoption based society ala the upper classes of the Roman republic, and you are likely going to develop things that are even odder such as:

bizzarre clubs and secret societies

a multiplicity of client relationships

and a good deal of kidnapping or hostage taking


Your incest taboos are going to be incredibly various and odd as are your socieities ideas of privacy.
 

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Dr. Strangemonkey said:
At the very least you are going to end up with a very adoption based society ala the upper classes of the Roman republic, and you are likely going to develop things that are even odder such as:

bizzarre clubs and secret societies

a multiplicity of client relationships

and a good deal of kidnapping or hostage taking

Your incest taboos are going to be incredibly various and odd as are your socieities ideas of privacy.

Hmmm...I guess inheritance would be determined by will (or in CE societies, by whatever anyone could rob). The default position: Divide the wealth between the people trying to raise the same kids he or she is trying to raise, as well as between the adult versions of those (raised) kids.

Do you have more info on the adoption policies of the upper classes of the roman republic? And can you go into more detail on the mechanics of how the other stuff would arise? I like the idea of secret societies. The incest taboo, hmmm..."Don't mess around with anyone that raised you or that you raised" and (except in very small populations where everyone raises the kids communally "Don't mess around with anyone with whom you shared a parent (where parent is "one who raised you")"). Anyhow, that was a first crack at it. The taboo would be in place, not for genetic reasons, but to prevent the stability of a family relationship between A and B being replaced with the less stable version of romance between A and B (since if the latter failed, the former would also be damaged).
 

Dr. Strangemonkey said:
Your incest taboos are going to be incredibly various and odd as are your socieities ideas of privacy.

actualy once you remove genetics then the biological reasoning behind the incest taboo disapears (the drive to keep the gene pool as diverse as possible). The way I see it is that each family unit would remain a tightly knit unit, with the children "marrying" into it once they reaches the age of majority. Families would then become more like a corperation, with the CEO (Patriarch/Matriarch) being replaced every few decades. Wealth would remain with in the family unit, not tied to any one individual.

in the case of a small villiage this would represent the entire villiage. Larger population centers would have several family units.
 
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Question: Is everyone in the world like this? (Primarily the sexual attitudes.)

Monoculture is unrealistic, as I'm sure we've all heard. Various global cultures and subcultures will have, and have had in the past, different attitudes towards matters. Consider the difference between San Francisco and Afghanistan, or look at the love poetry of classical Greece (I haven't heard anything about straight relationships in Macedon). You'll have repressive societies where nobody talks about sex, open societies where they do, subcultures where different sexualities are accepted while other people even in the same city hate their guts. You'll have societies where people form huge webs of relationships, societies where they form units of a certain size of mixed genders, societies where one person of one gender or orientation owns a harem, societies where couples are the norm. You'll have societies where one gender is dominant, where one sexuality is dominant, where one gender or sexuality is repressed, or when an even more select combination is in charge (on a social or political level). You'll have regions where genders and sexualities are 'caste' things, dictating your general life path, and you'll have regions where your parents tell you what to do, as well as regions where they specifically don't.

This could get very complicated - that is to say, interesting.

A further complication is considering whether this diversity extends to the humanoid population in the same measure. If races are alignment incarnations, as you've indicated, their attitudes are likely to be in tune with said alignment; if (say) gnolls are the chaotic evil race, they'll tend to avoid large social structures, but enjoy establishing dominance over others. Orientation doesn't matter to the race, but it may matter to the culture... so you might have the following (nasty) cultures:

Matriarchy, where the strongest females rule packs of a dozen or so mixed genders; straight 'relationships' are only permitted between the leader female and her sub-males (who have to do her bidding); all other relationships are frowned upon. A subculture of same-sex relationships flourishes, but is largely frowned upon. Women are the warriors, men are labourers.

Matriarchy, where females rule but anyone can breed when they want (and consent isn't necessary). Women are allowed to have same-sex relationships. Men aren't, but if they are discovered to do so, they are considered to be holy and ritually castrated in preparation for the priesthood. A subculture of people who want consent exists, but is frowned upon. Men are the warriors, but are commanded by women.

Patriarchy, where powerful males of a certain rank can lay claim to any number of women (through some appeal to parents or a ritual hunt). Most women belong to these males, leaving most males alone. Males are allowed same-sex relationships, which are considered to be true love (even ranked males have their favourites). The harem women spend most of their time working on household tasks (crops, weaving, etc); they are permitted to have same-sex relationships, and those that are pure-straight are rejected from harem society and compensate by learning politics or magic, becoming 'powers behind the throne'. Males are warriors.

Semi-egalitarian, where either gender is allowed to rule and take any role. The restriction is that only the bisexual can rule or be warriors; relationships are non-permanent, and sex isn't consensual for the pure straight or pure gay. Some straight and gay people form a subculture that teaches druidic rites; they are frowned upon.

OK, take those four cultural archetypes, and throw up a few countries or regions for each of them. Say there's a country ruled by the strict matriarchy, beside a wilderness region of similar culture; the country (call it Gnora) is ruled by a feudal system, and trophy males are trades as political pawns. The nomads (Esgnans) beside them, however, have no leader, no particular politics, and let their males have more free reign, as their life is harsh and they need every hand they can get. Then, throw in the liberal matriarchy as a nomadic neighbour (Gnukkh) to both; the eunuch priests live in monastaries or roam with their tribes.

The Gnukkh are in cultural conflict with the Esgnans and Gnora over their treatment of males - they use them as warriors, and Gnora women legionairres are uneasy attacking Gnukkh raiders for obvious reasons. In addition, the Gnukkh women can engage in relationships, and the Esgnans have never heard of such a thing - even the Gnora think of it as perversion. They also think it's pretty weird to castrate your males and give them religious authority. Of course, the Gnukkh think the Gnora and Esgnans are needlessly repressive and out of touch with the gods.

The Esgnan nomads dislike the idea of being ruled by a single queen, of course, and think the occasional same-sex relationship in Gnora is abhorrent. So they fight for independance against the Gnora legions too.



That's my big, long thoughts on the matter. I didn't mean to invent a sociopolitical region when I started, you know how these things get away from you.
 

Sex would be fundamentally altered. Taboos against incest, many facets of jealousy, social mores regarding "faithfulness", the nature of pairbonding or marriage - everything.

What it's altered to depends greatly on whatever you use to replace genetics. Do parents have any effect on their offspring other than (presumably) raising them? Are physical characteristics determined by pure chance?
 
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Its been years since I read it, but for some reason most of what I'm reading in this thread keeps bringing to mind Ursula LeGuin's Left Hand of Darkness. The main society of a planet, which a human is charged with establishing diplomatic ties with, are hermaphrodites and so their views about sex and sexual orientation are very different from our own. I might be off a bit but I think it might be worth you checking it out for some ideas.
 

One book to check out might be The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. Families on the moon are polygamous and multi-generational, with children raised communally and, at adulthood, either married into the group or given their inheritance upon leaving. New members join the family by being voted in, as I recall, and there is a sort of heirarchy based on who married in first.
Anyway, it's a cool book, and it might give you some ideas.
 

Oh yeah, Heinlein! It has been a while. He also described a messy "divorce" where the main character got booted out of a group marriage. "Friday", I believe it was called.
 


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