D&D 5E How Would this Surprise Example Play Out?

[DM Magic]

There are five goblins. Each of them roll Stealth checks: 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. There are five PCs. Between them, they have passive Perceptions of 10 and 11. I see this going one of two ways:

1) The four goblins who rolled 11 and under on their Stealth checks are seen but the one who rolled 12 isn't; he has surprise and is the only person who can go in Round 1. Or:

2) None of the goblins get surprise since four out of five are seen, though the one that rolled 12 is hidden and will get Advantage as normal.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

At least one of the goblins did not beat the Passive Perception of at least one of the PCs, therefore the party is alerted to the goblins and nobody gets surprise. The sneakiest goblin is hidden and has Advantage on its first attack, as long as it has something to hide behind and it can make its attack without breaking cover; otherwise, the alerted party sees it before it can do anything.

 

[Lidgar]

The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

Would go with Option #2, since all of the characters noticed a threat at the start of the encounter (even though they did not notice the entire threat). The undetected goblin could be considered hidden if conditions warrant it.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

Everyone noticed the goblin who rolled 8 on Stealth, so there's nobody who "doesn't notice a threat".

Also note that, while a member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't, the reverse isn't true - one member of a group can't act with surprise, while other members of the group are noticed. (Or at least, the rules don't indicate that such a thing possible; and doing so would go against the earlier part of the section, which prevents someone from being surprised if they notice a threat.)

 

[Prakriti]

I agree with Saelorn.

But I'd also like to point out that the default rule is to make ONE roll for all creatures of the same type. So, by default, you should only make one Stealth check for all five goblins.

 

[Lanliss]

Of the goblins are all hidden tpgether, no surprise. If they are seperate, or more importantly if the 12 is hidden separately from the rest, he would get surprise, unless the party sees four goblins and has the immediate response "watch out, there might be more we didn't spot"

End result, I think the 12 would get surprise, assuming it has a different hiding spot from the rest. The classic "Oh no, there was another one all along".

 

[ThePolarBear]

There are five goblins. Each of them roll Stealth checks: 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. There are five PCs. Between them, they have passive Perceptions of 10 and 11. I see this going one of two ways:

1) The four goblins who rolled 11 and under on their Stealth checks are seen but the one who rolled 12 isn't; he has surprise and is the only person who can go in Round 1. Or:

2) None of the goblins get surprise since four out of five are seen, though the one that rolled 12 is hidden and will get Advantage as normal.

Neither, but 2 is the closest to what could happen.

For surprise only: If even a single component of a group is noticed, surprise is no longer a factor for that character. Each individual passive perception is compared to each individual stealth roll, and if even one stealth roll is lower than the passive wisdom, the individual is not surprised. In this particular case 8 is always lower than the passive scores, so no PC is surprised.

For "hidden": Hiding is a contest between Dex(stealth) and Wis(perception). For rules of contest resolution, ties are resolved by leaving the situation "as it was before". The situation "before" is "pc's do not know the goblins are there". So, for PCs that have 10 Passive Wis(Perception) all goblins 10+ Dex(Stealth) are still hidden - unseen, unheard and position unknown. For PCs with 11, gobbos with 11+ are hidden.
This situation of different "perceptions" is usually glossed over by "imagining" PCs warning each other, but the point is that there are 2 goblins hiding from all of them, not 1.

Even for those gobbos that are not hidden: not being hidden does NOT automatically mean that they are SEEN. If it's impossible for them to be seen (in darkness, behind a wall...) they are still unseen, but their location is known and their actions are "perceptible" in suitable ways - until they successfully hide. If they can take a shot while REMAINING unseen they still get advantage on the roll.

All of this obviously always under dms approval and subject to dm revision/change.

 

[Uller]

Presumably the goblins are hidden from sight before the check is made. So the characters with an 11 Passive Perception see only the goblins that rolled an 8, 9 and 10. The characters with a 10 PP only see the goblins with an 8 and 9 stealth check.

 

[Shiroiken]

But I'd also like to point out that the default rule is to make ONE roll for all creatures of the same type. So, by default, you should only make one Stealth check for all five goblins.

While I don't know if it's the default, I every DM I know does this for convenience. It also helps to avoid these odd situations.

I'm even lazier and just set a DC for their Perception Checks.

 

[MerricB]

Basically:

* No character is surprised (each character noticed at least one threat, PHB 189)
* Some goblins are hidden from all the PCs and may attack with advantage if they don't get seen first
* Some goblins are hidden from some of the PCs, and may attack those PCs with advantage.
* Some goblins are known and attack normally.

Note that "hidden" indicates the characters know where the goblin is. "Not hidden" means the characters know where the goblin is - because they heard, saw or smelt the goblin - doesn't have to be visual.

Also note that there are no rules for another character showing you where the hidden goblins are. Unless they give themselves away, you must use an action to search for them, though another character could tell you where they are... but they're still considered "hidden" until you do something to unhide them. (Moving so you have clear line-of-sight to them is an option).

Cheers!