How would you continue the design of the individual themes?

[YRUSirius]

I know that we'll get rules for the higher levels in the future playtest packet pretty soon, but I just can't wait, so I'd like to speculate about later feats in the themes.

With the mechanics that we got from the themes that had been given to us (slayer, guardian, lurker, healer, magic-user) in mind, how would you design their later feats?

The playtest characters gain a feat on 1st and 3rd level. This could continue with feats on 5th, 7th and 9th level. This would mean a theme would consist of 5 feats that would span roughly 10 levels.

So there might be 3 feats left for each given theme.

What kind of feats would you like to see in those later theme 'tiers'? Let's assume a theme is a feat tree, so you need the basic feat to get the feat on the next 'tier'. What would you like to see for the 3rd, 4th and 5th slayer feat? For the guardian? Magic-User, Healer, Lurker?

What kind of additional (basic) themes do you think are reasonable for the basic D&D experience?

-YRUSirius

 

[YRUSirius]

For examle:

The Magic-User theme gives access to two wizard minor spells at 1st level.

The character gets a familiar at 3rd level.

He might get an additional 1st level spell at 5th level and an additional 2nd level spell at level 7 and finally an additional 3rd level spell at level 9.

So, a level 9 fighter with the magic-user theme could have some spells ready to help him out in the fight, but not too many.



We could have a Priest theme that does the same thing just for cleric spells. So two cleric minor spells at 1st level. Some major feature at 3rd level. Plus additional spells at later levels.

-YRUSirius

 

[YRUSirius]

The slayer

3rd feat - Charge: As an action the slayer can move his speed in one straight line and make a melee attack. On a hit he causes 1d6 additional damage. The slayer then grants advantage until his next turn.

4th feat - Brutal Critical Hit: A slayer causes +1d10 addtional damage on a critical hit.

5th feat - Whirlwind attack: As an action the slayer makes melee attacks against all nearby foes within 5 feet. The slayer then grants advantage until his next turn.

Something like that. I chose those feats because the slayer's theme (hehe) seems to be to hit big opponents HARD and to hit MANY small opponents. I chose the charge feat because the omission of a charge option in the combat section seemed to point to possible design space intentionally left open. I was inspired by the charge attack of the orcs in the playtest. The Whirlwind attack seemed strong (possible minion killer!) so I placed it as the 5th feat.

-YRUSirius

 

[YRUSirius]

Any fun thoughts or is everybody out of ideas?

-YRUSirius

 

[jadrax]

I know that we'll get rules for the higher levels in the future playtest packet pretty soon, but I just can't wait, so I'd like to speculate about later feats in the themes.

I am honestly not sure how its going to work tbh. They were talking about characters getting a second theme at 5th or 6th, allowing you to pick up some themes reworking 3rd ed Prestige Classes.

If that is the case, it may well be each theme only actually contains 2 (or maybe 3) feats in total.

I think as we only have 3 levels so far, its far to soon to really know.

What kind of additional (basic) themes do you think are reasonable for the basic D&D experience?

A divine counterpart to Magic-User seems a given. Weapon Styles seem heavily implied (Archer, Tempest?). There is tons of old Priest Classes that might qualify, although I am not sure if that's what you mean by 'basic'. For that matter the 4th edition version of Prestige classes (I forget the name) you got at level 11 and 21 may count.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

they said something about advanced themes. So after level 5, you can opt into advanced slayer, which gives those listed benefits.

 

[YRUSirius]

I'm not so sure anymore about advanced themes at level 6.

This is why:



1st level: class features + feat

2nd level: class feature

3rd level: feat

4th level: class feature

5th level: feat

6th level: class feature

This advancement seems pretty balanced. I'm pretty sure that classes will get more class features when they level up (for example more surge uses, additional regular attacks EVERY round for fighters at say level 6 etc).



But It COULD also look like this:

1st level: class features + feat

2nd level: class feature

3rd level: feat

4th level: class feature + feat

5th level: feat

6th level: class feature + feat

With this advancement even levels could be too powerful (getting a feat AND a class feature).



With the first advancement there is a pretty natural entry point for 'advanced' themes at level 11 IF we have themes that consist of 5 feats. This way advanced themes will resemble paragon paths more than prestige classes (who could be chosen relatively early on in the adventuring carreer).

That notion of advanced themes at level 6 is from an old wizard blog article from April 20th. This could have changed already.



-YRUSirius

 

[jadrax]

True, but Wizards do not seem to really get a class feature at 2nd. It is not clear that all classes will progress that evenly.

 

[YRUSirius]

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

Boom! As it currently stands: characters will gain feats every other level. 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

I think 5 feat themes (over 10 levels) seem to be a given now, they are going for a 20 level cap and are looking into advanced themes. Advanced themes at level 10+ seems plausible.

-YRUSirius

 

[Ratskinner]

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

Boom! As it currently stands: characters will gain feats every other level. 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

I think 5 feat themes (over 10 levels) seem to be a given now, they are going for a 20 level cap and are looking into advanced themes. Advanced themes at level 10+ seems plausible.

-YRUSirius

Not that I'm trying to crush your buzz or anything, but I'm not so sure:

"The theme you gain at 1st level isn’t the only theme you get. ... The first theme you choose is broadly descriptive and flexible. Think Leader, Sharpshooter, or Skirmisher. When you adopt your second theme at 6th level, you might choose another basic theme or you might choose something that grounds you a bit more in the game by selecting an advanced theme. Currently, advanced themes, in concept, resemble the prestige classes from 3rd Edition.... A Sharpshooter becomes an Arcane Archer. A Tempest becomes an Eldritch Knight. A Lurker becomes a Shadowdancer. A Mystic becomes a Necromancer or Enchanter or Abjurer. A Slayer becomes an Axe Specialist. A Guardian becomes a Dwarven Defender."

​

From Backgrounds and Themes: A Closer Look. It could change back and forth 5 times between now and release. The possibilities that would match the quotes so far include:

• Themes have generally varying "length" (This one has 3 feats, that one only two while another has 5.)
• Basic Themes that only go up to 5, with Basic Theme II alongside Advanced Themes to keep going in that vein.
• Characters of 6th level and above have an increased rate of feat/theme acquisition. (May or may not imply slower acquisition of class-based abilities, but that would be consistent with dropping feats and backgrounds for an "old school" feel.
• 6th level is special, because advanced themes give you an extra non-feat quirk as you take them (maybe another skill or something.)
• The definition of a "theme" is still so much in flux that this entire conversation is silly. That is themes have changed in definition in between the two articles.

My personal guess is that that last one is the closest to the truth.