D&D 5E How would you do the sword mage in 5e?

[Scribe]

Anyway, on topic, one of my friends really liked an idea of having a “gish” that enhances their weapon via alchemy, with alchemical concoctions applied to the striking surface.

Idk if that leads to a swordmage specifically, but IMO it’s pretty good as a potential subclass idea.

I very much just look at it as 'using the weapon as the vehicle for spell application' for a lot of what makes the gish, a gish.

In that line, an Alchemical version makes sense as well.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

I think the closest chassis for the sword mage would actually be the Monk. In fact I would argue that it makes more sense thematically for a Gish class than a monk class in dungeons & dragons.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

So aside from the 7 Gishes we already have (not including popular multiclasses like Sorc-adin)... we dont have any Gishes in 5E?

Right.

Ok lets abandon the word 'gish', as at this point a lvl 1 kobald wizard with 2 hp and a dagger counts as a 'gish'.

I mean it can cast a spell and hit things in melee, so it counts right?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I always find it interesting that in discussions on making a new class for swordmage, or a gish of some kind, it's very common to give the class 3 skill proficiencies, despite the fact that the "parent" classes, fighter and wizard do not have more than the standard two.

Yeah two skills would make far more sense. In One DnD terminology, it would probably be a warrior or mage. Not an expert.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

Everyone has a slightly different opinion, which is part of the problem. The class has always failed to build an identity unlike Paladin and Ranger (part of rangers problem is that is has too many identities and they all clash). It's not helped that in every edition, the class got renamed. Duskblade in 3.5e, magus in pathfinder, and swordmage in 4e.

Without going into mechanics, to me the swordmage is a warrior who equally blends magic and martial ability together. Rather than casting destructive spells, they focus on enchanting their weapons for each strike. Their magic isn't drawn from gods or nature like rangers or clerics. Rather it's arcane and elemental focused, like that of wizards and genasi. In fact in 4e, genasi were the 'signature' swordmages as it blended with their innate elemental power.

Most swordmages aren't known for their staying power or heavy armour. Preferring to hop around the battlefield like nightcrawler, avoiding being hit at all rather than trying to tank blows.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I very much just look at it as 'using the weapon as the vehicle for spell application' for a lot of what makes the gish, a gish.

In that line, an Alchemical version makes sense as well.

Agreed on all points

I think the closest chassis for the sword mage would actually be the Monk. In fact I would argue that it makes more sense thematically for a Gish class than a month class in dungeons & dragons.

I agree that monk makes sense as a gish. I’ve explored rebuilding them as more general mystic/esoteric warrior called a mystic (an early name for the monk, anyway), that encompasses swordmage, East Asian warrior-monks, European Hermetic swordmasters like Thibault and Agrippa imagined in a world where magic works, and even some Indigenous mystical martial traditions, when such traditions aren’t better as Paladins.

The thematic difference between them and Paladins is basically the difference between “sacred” and “esoteric”.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

Swordmages to me are typically semi-armoured close-mid range weapon users who enhance their attacks with elemental powers or debuffs, they’re mobile and tend to avoid taking damage rather than soaking it up outright

Thor has been mentioned as an example which I wouldn’t say is wrong exactly but it’s not right either, to me thor is to the swordmage what the barbarian is to the fighter, lots of power and health but little finesse with their abilities

It’s not the best example but the first one to come to mind is the elemental weapon boosts from Kirby star allies, how each of the different elements enhances how each of the basic weapons it is applied to is used, fire does more damage, water has AoE spread, wind makes you more manuevreable and so on,
Try compare how different weapons play with a different element as shown here (the video cycles through all the different weapons as one element before doing the same with the next element and again for the rest)

5e has plenty of tools for a good swordmage across it’s abilities (green flame blade, booming blade, absorb elements, lightning arrow, elemental weapon, steel wind strike) but it hasn’t really put them all together in a single package

 

[cbwjm]

Swordmages to me are typically semi-armoured close-mid range weapon users who enhance their attacks with elemental powers or debuffs, they’re mobile and tend to avoid taking damage rather than soaking it up outright

Thor has been mentioned as an example which I wouldn’t say is wrong exactly but it’s not right either, to me thor is to the swordmage what the barbarian is to the fighter, lots of power and health but little finesse with their abilities

I think this would be a good case for subclasses. Have the base class able to use medium armour and then subclasses that change things up. I think that would let the base class fit archetypes like:

• Thor.
• Death Knight, heavy armour and a focus on necromantic abilities.
• The teleporting sword mage, marking enemies and punishing them by unleashing the power of their aegis.
• The bladesinger, pretty much the wizard subclass, lightly armoured skirmishers.

Plenty more options out there in sure, but I think the class could fit multiple expressions, much like the domain changes the cleric and focuses them on melee or cantrip attacks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I think this would be a good case for subclasses. Have the base class able to use medium armour and then subclasses that change things up. I think that would let the base class fit archetypes like:

• Thor.
• Death Knight, heavy armour and a focus on necromantic abilities.
• The teleporting sword mage, marking enemies and punishing them by unleashing the power of their aegis.
• The bladesinger, pretty much the wizard subclass, lightly armoured skirmishers.

Plenty more options out there in sure, but I think the class could fit multiple expressions, much like the domain changes the cleric and focuses them on melee or cantrip attacks.

Would love to see an elemental focused subclass. As genasi in 4e were the 'archetypical' swordmages.