D&D 5E How would you do the sword mage in 5e?

[Frozen_Heart]

Cleric was the original OD&D Gish, a melee combatant with magic. Not as good at straight fighting as a Fighting Man (weapon restrictions, lower HD) or as good at straight magic as a Magic User (no spells at 1st level, different spell selection with less attack spells), but their combo is pretty good and allows stuff the other two can't (healing and buff spells, etc.).

Yet we still got Paladin despite all that, with Clerics magic being boosted up to Wizard level. And in a similar manner, we got Ranger to slot half way between Druid and a martial class.

But people strangely object to having a similar equivalent for arcane / elemental magic. Even Artificer is banned by many DM's, and only ended up with 4 subclasses.

I do think that an Artificer subclass could have worked for a Swordmage, but with 5e coming to an end that will never happen now. One focused on forging a weapon, and then having a selection of magical strikes with it similar to an Arcane Archer.

 

[Dausuul]

I would build the swordmage as something like an arcane version of the paladin, and give it an Aegis-inspired feature in place of Divine Smite. Something like this:

Swordmage's Mark: When you make a melee weapon attack against a creature, you can place your mark upon that creature (even if the attack misses). You know the marked creature's location at all times, and whenever it is within 30 feet of you, you can perceive it as if you had blindsight. The mark lasts for 1 minute or until you use this ability again.

Swordmage's Retribution: As a reaction, when a creature bearing your Swordmage's Mark attacks a target other than you, or takes an action that deals damage but does not damage you, you can expend a spell slot to inflict 1d8 force damage to the marked creature, plus 1d8 per level of the spell slot.

And then you'd have subclass abilities like this:

Ensnaring Retribution: When you use Swordmage's Retribution, you can teleport the marked creature to a space of your choice within 5 feet of you. You must choose a location where the creature can rest on solid ground.

 

[Flamestrike]

Blade Pact Warlocks are far from being an actual full time gish. They’re barely more than a mage that can stab in an emergency.

Hexblades are closer, but end up like someone made a gish class with only one subclass, at best, eliminating much of what makes warlocks fun to play, and it’s still not actually that good at being in the frontline.

Eldritch Knight is at best a part time pseudo-gish. Even that is a stretch. Might as well claim all warriors are gish because they can take spell-granting feats.

Battlesmith is fine, again if you put every class resource into being a gish which leaves no room to do anything else with your character, and don’t mind that your base class isn’t really adding much to your gish-ness.

Forge Adept isn’t an official subclass.

Valor Bard!?

Sword Bard is a decent swashbuckling bard, but it’s still very heavily a mage/rogue thing, not a full time gish.

Bladesinger is maybe the closest of those listed, until you actually play one in a game that challenges the PCs complexly and with all three pillars, and you realize that you are just either a bad mage holding a sword or a sword dervish with a spellbook that can’t actually effect the battlefield bc all your spells are spent protecting your squishy self.

But sure, anyone with a weapon who can cast spells is a gish.

So aside from the 7 Gishes we already have (not including popular multiclasses like Sorc-adin)... we dont have any Gishes in 5E?

Right.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No conversation is better than bad conversation.

Anyway, on topic, one of my friends really liked an idea of having a “gish” that enhances their weapon via alchemy, with alchemical concoctions applied to the striking surface.

Idk if that leads to a swordmage specifically, but IMO it’s pretty good as a potential subclass idea.

 

[Staffan]

So aside from the 7 Gishes we already have (not including popular multiclasses like Sorc-adin)... we dont have any Gishes in 5E?

Right.

There are classes and subclasses that can both fight some and cast spells some. There isn't anyone who integrates magic into the very way they fight the way the 4e swordmage did.

 

[Voadam]

There are classes and subclasses that can both fight some and cast spells some. There isn't anyone who integrates magic into the very way they fight the way the 4e swordmage did.

Not exactly the same way, but paladins with smite and a lot of their spell selection and option for self healing as they fight does a pretty good integration of their magic with their fighting style.

In 4e they had the same defender role as swordmages, and they have traditionally had magic that supported their fighting so they are the most iconic example of a magical warrior to expect in 5e I would think.

 

[Blue]

I'm guessing somebody already beat me to it (in which case, post here), but I'm curious.

I really liked the idea of a dedicated gish class and was wondering what it would need.

I got some ideas, but want to see what people say first.

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

 

[Voadam]

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

Depends if you mean a 4e sword mage or a non 4e sword mage.

A non-4e sword mage would just be a gish with varying tying of the magic to melee combat to taste. Elric who uses Swordbringer and summons Elemental and Animal Lords could be gish sword mage even though only his alchemy ties directly into his melee. The Witcher could be a decent example as well.

A 4e sword mage could be described a couple different ways.

I would say they are defined by two big things, magic powers empowering their melee strikes, and their aegis powers which vary widely by swordmage tradition (assault, shielding, etc.).

Other ways of defining them could be arcane lightly armored magical weapon combatants, or wizard tradition of magic channeled into weapon combat uses.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

I always find it interesting that in discussions on making a new class for swordmage, or a gish of some kind, it's very common to give the class 3 skill proficiencies, despite the fact that the "parent" classes, fighter and wizard do not have more than the standard two.

 

[Staffan]

Without discussing mechanics, what makes a sword mage?

In my mind, the sword mage is a melee-focused warrior who integrates arcane (primarily elemental, but the occasional force magic or teleport is fine too) magic into their fighting. Ideally, they should never make a "basic" attack – every move should have some magic behind it. I don't want them casting regular spells – at least not the ones that are on the traditional wizard list. I have no interest in someone who hits their foes with a blade (or for that matter a blunt object) the old-fashioned way and tosses out the occasional blur or shield to be unhittable. I want something that, at high levels, looks like Thor battling Hel's undead horde on Bifrost (but ideally armed and not only using lightning).

I also want this to be a whole class with at least some variation within the class. You can get something that approaches this ideal by mixing and matching various classes and subclasses, but that is not satisfactory. I want to be able to build a full party of swordmages that all feel distinct from one another, at least to the same degree I can do the same with a party of wizards, fighters, or clerics.