D&D 5E How would you ensure longevity and sustainability for 5th Edition?

[Patrick McGill]

So far a lot of you have mentioned an OGL and Settings books.

Now, 3rd edition had both of these. It lasted 7 years if you include 3.5. Were either of the two aforementioned things factors in the lifespan of that edition? Or was it other things, like glut and bloat, that did it in?

See, I imagine that OGL and settings are what we want as fans of the game. I desperately want both of these. But I am unsure about whether these will help an edition survive. There are some that say 2nd edition killed itself with settings, by having too many different settings out competing with each other. And obviously, for good or ill, the OGL is the reason why D&D has a competitor in Pathfinder.

I'm in agreement that the one thing I would do is focus on getting new players. One way I would go about doing this is professionally done tutorial videos that go through the Basic rules in single-digit minute segments. Preferably these would be out when the first box set was released. When I am about to buy a board game the first thing I do is watch youtube videos showing how the mechanics work. I think utilizing videos (more) is a missed opportunity. They do have some videos, like the AP sessions, but honestly those are a bit long and dry. I'm sure they have helped some people get into the game, but I think small focused videos narrated by a professional would go a long way in helping people get into the hobby.

The AL is already well established and my own anecdotal experience is it has helped bring people into the fold. The facebook page for the AL at my FLGS is always pretty active with people sharing resources and scheduling sessions.

As far as OGL, perhaps the thing to do would be to do a basic OGL that anyone can use, and have a licensed version that people can pay for that would include use of all of the D&D rules and terminology. WotC would act as a curator of these licensees, a bit like the Apple Store, and so can maintain brand identity while still making a cut and not having to expend much resources. The basic OGL would suffice for many creators who want to create radically different settings, classes, races, etc.

Obviously this is all speculation. I'm not an RPG publisher or know much of anything about how it works.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There are some that say 2nd edition killed itself with settings, by having too many different settings out competing with each other. And obviously, for good or ill, the OGL is the reason why D&D has a competitor in Pathfinder.

TSR melted down, it wasn't all 2e's fault. I'd say the GSL is the reason we have Pathfinder. Paizo was all set to keep making stuff for D&D, then the OGL was delayed, and they hedged, saying they wanted to continue supporting 3.5, too, then the GSL came out and they jumped ship and created Pathfinder. The GSL was toxic.

5e may not really need an OGL of it's own, as there's already "5E" stuff being produced using the old OGL.

I'm in agreement that the one thing I would do is focus on getting new players. One way I would go about doing this is professionally done tutorial videos that go through the Basic rules in single-digit minute segments.

That's not a bad idea.

In general, though, getting significant new players (enough to actually grow the customer base), would mean either attracting many more people to try the game, or retaining more of them, or both.

The former would probably mean advertising, which gets crazy expensive.
The latter would mean changing the game to make it more accessible and fun for new players, which can provoke (as we've seen) a backlash from the existing customer base.
Both are risks that would require up-front investment - and, both have been tried in the past and failed.

But, things like AL, podcasts of the game being played, tutorials - anything that can be done on the cheap (relative to re-designing the game from the bottom up or launching a traditional media campaign) - would be great ideas, and could help keep the brand going.

 

[Tzarevitch]

So far a lot of you have mentioned an OGL and Settings books.

Now, 3rd edition had both of these. It lasted 7 years if you include 3.5. Were either of the two aforementioned things factors in the lifespan of that edition? Or was it other things, like glut and bloat, that did it in?

See, I imagine that OGL and settings are what we want as fans of the game. I desperately want both of these. But I am unsure about whether these will help an edition survive. There are some that say 2nd edition killed itself with settings, by having too many different settings out competing with each other.

"Some" say the moon is made of green cheese or the Earth was created in seven days, that doesn't make it true. Setting publications brought in money for TSR during the 2e era. Mismanagement and a nasty divorce are what did it in mainly. Game publishers have to publish stuff to make money and stay in business. That's how it works. Otherwise the company dies.

 

[Patrick McGill]

"Some" say the moon is made of green cheese or the Earth was created in seven days, that doesn't make it true. Setting publications brought in money for TSR during the 2e era. Mismanagement and a nasty divorce are what did it in mainly. Game publishers have to publish stuff to make money and stay in business. That's how it works. Otherwise the company dies.

I'm unsure of where I insinuated that WotC needs to not publish stuff.

My point is finding the point where you're not publishing too much stuff, and not causing your products to compete with each other. You want your consumers to want, and be able to, buy everything you publish.

 

[Patrick McGill]

TSR melted down, it wasn't all 2e's fault.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the actual reasons for TSR melting down beyond remembering reading that they were producing box sets and selling them for cheaper than it was to make them because of money mismanagement.

I'm still not sure 2E's approach would be sustainable, however. I could be wrong!

 

[Tzarevitch]

I'm unsure of where I insinuated that WotC needs to not publish stuff.

I did not insinuate anything. I responded to what you said and pointed out that the "some" people whom you referenced were incorrect. Publishing new settings did not kill 2e. Outside factors did that. New settings actually brought TSR (back in 2e) a lot of money and kept it afloat for many years despite the company's problems.

 

[SkidAce]

This hypothetical is inspired by Mike's comments about the expected playbook when it comes to rpgs. Specifically, he said that players have a script that turns out badly for publishers. (Via a twitter conversation here.)

So imagine you are given the monumental task of ensuring the longevity of D&D fifth edition. A Hari Seldon role, if you will, of ensuring the game and brand can weather the usual difficult timeline of an RPG.

What do you do? What products become priority? What gets released, and more importantly, what doesn't?

Keep in mind this isn't a personal wishlist. The very things many of us hardcore players want may be what starts the fall of the empire!

+1 for the Asimov references.

 

[Jessica]

Don't you need at least a little bit of splat to keep sustainable? I mean after your customer base have bought the core books then what else are they going to buy? I can see DMs buying APs, but I can't imagine catering to a fraction of the customer base can be all that profitable. Shouldn't they be selling something that the players can buy? I'm not saying that you need a new splatbook every month, but at least throw something crunchy our way every once in a while.

 

[Mistwell]

"Some" say the moon is made of green cheese or the Earth was created in seven days, that doesn't make it true. Setting publications brought in money for TSR during the 2e era. Mismanagement and a nasty divorce are what did it in mainly. Game publishers have to publish stuff to make money and stay in business. That's how it works. Otherwise the company dies.

TSR insiders have said that while many factors led to the fall of TSR, setting glut was in fact one meaningful factor in that fall. Some players stopped identifying themselves as D&D players and were instead identifying themselves by the setting they played in. Rule systems were beginning to become incompatible with each other between settings. Players were starting to decline to buy products set in a other setting than their "own". This was leading to short term sales for each new setting but long term fewer sales overall. It was a real issue.

If you want to read more about it you might try GameSpy magazines excellent expose'/history piece on D&D. The relevant portion is article 3, which you can find here. Setting glut definitely payed a meaningful roll in brand dilution and the fall of TSR. Bill Slavicsek, then director of RPGs, miniatures and R&D at Wizards of the Coast, even gave it a name - the "Many Buckets" theory.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Don't you need at least a little bit of splat to keep sustainable? I mean after your customer base have bought the core books then what else are they going to buy? I can see DMs buying APs, but I can't imagine catering to a fraction of the customer base can be all that profitable. Shouldn't they be selling something that the players can buy? I'm not saying that you need a new splatbook every month, but at least throw something crunchy our way every once in a while.

I'd certainly like to see that now and then, but just for the purposes of this question, no, not absolutely necessary.

For one thing, D&D tends to get played in little coteries of a DM and several players, and if one player has a splatbook, they all use it, so you're not necessarily selling splats to more players than you are adventures to DMs. If WotC could get a more tournament mind-set going, where D&Ders play at events, and there's a policy that you must have any book you want to use to build your character with you, sure. But D&Ders are terribly resistant to change.

Finally, unless the splatbook is in a different format, it could cause confusion to retailers and potential new players, as the PH2 & 3 and Essentials did.

Sticking to 3 core books presents a clear, stable vision of the IP.

Settings, though, might be something to put out, to keep /that/ IP out there. Either in sourcebooks or in novels.