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D&D 5E How would you improve Dragon+, WotC's Online Magazine?

aco175

Legend
I do look at Dragon+ when they come out, not sure if it is from longing or nostalgia element. I agree that it is mostly promotional for new stuff they are making. It seems to be working for them, so there is no incentive to change it. I was going to say that they could print/post some of the old Dragon and Dungeon magazines and make them open content. They could ask some of the DMsGuild authors they promote to update some stuff and post it. Let others update stuff and change the original stuff.

Problem is that it would compete with the new thing they are promoting. Updating the Shackles campaign now suddenly splits the Candlekeep sales. They may also need to open forums again if they posted old articles. People would want to discuss and argue over issue whatever's article on bow types and such.

I guess, overall I feel like there is not much from Wizards site that makes me want to look at it. I feel like they are not trying, but their formula is working for them as least.
 

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Can you link to or explain why a print version of Dragon Magazine isn't possible? Because I have near my desk a copy of White Dwarf and I'm wondering why WotC can't do it if GW can at $9 an issue.

Every article I've read on the topic of print media says that general interest magazines are losing subscribers and advertising but niche magazines (which is what Dragon Magazine would be) are doing very well. It's still a $22.9 billion industry.

It is not nearly as confusing as the fact that Hasbro, one of the world's leading manufacturers of little plastic objects in the shapes of various characters, chooses to license out the creation of official minis. Fundamentally I think it is a large corporation not interested in pursuing possible side-businesses for the WotC division and its properties unless they are straight-forward, no-capital-down, minimal-risk-for-them licensing deals.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Supporter
It is not nearly as confusing as the fact that Hasbro, one of the world's leading manufacturers of little plastic objects in the shapes of various characters, chooses to license out the creation of official minis. Fundamentally I think it is a large corporation not interested in pursuing possible side-businesses for the WotC division and its properties unless they are straight-forward, no-capital-down, minimal-risk-for-them licensing deals.
The market for tabletop miniatures, both RPG and wargames, is a very different market from the toy market.

My miniatures are not toys! :)
 

It is not nearly as confusing as the fact that Hasbro, one of the world's leading manufacturers of little plastic objects in the shapes of various characters, chooses to license out the creation of official minis. Fundamentally I think it is a large corporation not interested in pursuing possible side-businesses for the WotC division and its properties unless they are straight-forward, no-capital-down, minimal-risk-for-them licensing deals.
Or as I like to say, "the juice is not worth the sqeeze." Another way is "printing magazines for money is like fighting a Dragon for coppers. It's not rewarding enough for the people who can do it."
 

Or as I like to say, "the juice is not worth the sqeeze." Another way is "printing magazines for money is like fighting a Dragon for coppers. It's not rewarding enough for the people who can do it."
Well that's certainly the bean-counter's way of viewing it if that is indeed WotC's position. Having been close to many TSR Dragon editors I know that the ads pay for the magazine, What costs that are not paid for through ads (and subscriptions/shelf copy sales) are absorbed by the company. Print is about dedication to a consumer base that keeps the multi-tiered company, in this case, going. It's an added Thank You as well as an ad churner and hype producer. Perhaps the nitty-gritty days of print are gone for such media; and it appears to be nip-n-tuck with theaters vs. direct to streaming. as well. Taking print mediums and theater away eliminates unique cultural and societal experiences. It shortens and shades in gray colors the social horizon contracting it towards isolation. I've personally had enough of that with Covid. But as I've stated elsewhere, WotC will do what they do. Not all experiences are equal however nor are they all just about ":getting the information."
 

Parmandur

Legend
Well that's certainly the bean-counter's way of viewing it if that is indeed WotC's position. Having been close to many TSR Dragon editors I know that the ads pay for the magazine, What costs that are not paid for through ads (and subscriptions/shelf copy sales) are absorbed by the company. Print is about dedication to a consumer base that keeps the multi-tiered company, in this case, going. It's an added Thank You as well as an ad churner and hype producer. Perhaps the nitty-gritty days of print are gone for such media; and it appears to be nip-n-tuck with theaters vs. direct to streaming. as well. Taking print mediums and theater away eliminates unique cultural and societal experiences. It shortens and shades in gray colors the social horizon contracting it towards isolation. I've personally had enough of that with Covid. But as I've stated elsewhere, WotC will do what they do. Not all experiences are equal however nor are they all just about ":getting the information."
The ads that pay aren't there for print magazines much anymore: the entire industry has shrunk considerably.
 



No, I meant the magazine industry. Massively smaller than it was 15 years ago.
Got it. Dragon and Dungeon are not hobbyist magazines, either. Dragon under TSR eventually became a company vehicle, but there was still massive adverts in it up to about 1987/88 where a steep decline in subs/shelf sales occurred (from 150.000 previously to 80,000), this according to their two rate sheets I had. So. I suppose other companies out there see little use in advertising in Dragon today mainly because of direct online platforms and info delivery systems, et al. Still, print rules; and if ever it doesn't we will be in a poorer societal life-cycle for it.
 

Got it. Dragon and Dungeon are not hobbyist magazines, either. Dragon under TSR eventually became a company vehicle, but there was still massive adverts in it up to about 1987/88 where a steep decline in subs/shelf sales occurred (from 150.000 previously to 80,000), this according to their two rate sheets I had. So. I suppose other companies out there see little use in advertising in Dragon today mainly because of direct online platforms and info delivery systems, et al. Still, print rules; and if ever it doesn't we will be in a poorer societal life-cycle for it.
I think magazine advertising collapsed with newspaper advertising as google basically ate everyone else's lunch with advertising revenue.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Got it. Dragon and Dungeon are not hobbyist magazines, either. Dragon under TSR eventually became a company vehicle, but there was still massive adverts in it up to about 1987/88 where a steep decline in subs/shelf sales occurred (from 150.000 previously to 80,000), this according to their two rate sheets I had. So. I suppose other companies out there see little use in advertising in Dragon today mainly because of direct online platforms and info delivery systems, et al. Still, print rules; and if ever it doesn't we will be in a poorer societal life-cycle for it.
Yeah, it's not worth the ROI.
 

I think magazine advertising collapsed with newspaper advertising as google basically ate everyone else's lunch with advertising revenue.
Yes. I understood that. I was wondering why, in this niche market, why other companies, blossoming as they are, might not be advertising as much in WotC's 'zines, electronic or if they were to go print. I circled back to why. Kinda scattershot, I know. It seems that I created an accidental rabbit hole and will beg Alice to rescue me now... ;)
 

Parmandur

Legend
Yes. I understood that. I was wondering why, in this niche market, why other companies, blossoming as they are, might not be advertising as much in WotC's 'zines, electronic or if they were to go print. I circled back to why. Kinda scattershot, I know. It seems that I created an accidental rabbit hole and will beg Alice to rescue me now... ;)
Placing an ad here on ENWorld probably reaches more people than TSR could have ever dreamed of with a print magazine.
 

Placing an ad here on ENWorld probably reaches more people than TSR could have ever dreamed of with a print magazine.
That's true. Their height was 150,000 as I noted. Magazine ads are more persistent, though. They are there, the magazine's there as you walk past it in the house. You can take it places (I know, we can walk around with tablets and phones, and thereby connect wherever, but that's not as personal. not as intimate). That's the point about print. It smells of new ink, the pages rustle and swoosh, they blow in the wind, you try not to set things on them, watermark them. There's an intimacy with them that electrons will never replace. Note: 'That said as I type electrons! ' ;) Pros and Cons. But I've never smelled an other than neutral scented electronic device. So there... :)
 

Parmandur

Legend
That's true. Their height was 150,000 as I noted. Magazine ads are more persistent, though. They are there, the magazine's there as you walk past it in the house. You can take it places (I know, we can walk around with tablets and phones, and thereby connect wherever, but that's not as personal. not as intimate). That's the point about print. It smells of new ink, the pages rustle and swoosh, they blow in the wind, you try not to set things on them, watermark them. There's an intimacy with them that electrons will never replace. Note: 'That said as I type electrons! ' ;) Pros and Cons. But I've never smelled an other than neutral scented electronic device. So there... :)
Won't get any argument from me on principle, I was an avid magazine reader as a kid in the 90's. But it became increasingly difficult to justify the subscriptions to stay behind the curve...
 



Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Who needs online or magazine ads when you got the Matt Mercer effect on your side?

I think you joke, but I do think there are a ton of people who have not heard of Matt Mercer, but have heard of D&D and want to try it, but don't know how, or where to start. I know, because this was my experience as a teenager in Connecticut, where I knew no one in my friends or family who played. I thought D&D was a board game, but the name Dungeons and Dragons sounded fun and I wanted to play it.
 


Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
They use a Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, and word of mouth strategy.

I've got a degree in marketing, and I can tell you that these are all important things for your marketing branch to do. But if you got money, they shouldn't be the only things you do.

Here is an ad from Warhammer 40,000... remember, this is not an ad for miniatures (which they also do a lot of) this is for a rules book. It takes a little art (reused from the book with a little movement), some voice-over, and bam pretty decent ad.


I see no reason why D&D doesn't send these out on YouTube and social channels, targeting the same (or similar) audience they send ads of Magic the Gathering to. I understand they've had enormous success so far, but this type of targeting can only improve sales. It's honestly leaving money on the table, and I can only assume that the WotC team hasn't bothered because they're getting double-digit growth anyway.
 

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