How would you keep a Frenzied Beserker from killing the whole party?

[Templetroll]

When you are Raging and Frenzying there is still some cognitive precesses going on. You can still distinguish Friend from Foe. This is reflected by the rule that says he doesn't attack the nearest creature untill all the foes are dead. You can use all skills and abilites that don't require Patience or Concentration.

Metalsmith

He can recognize his friends up until the point that all foes are dead and then everyone becomes a target. Isn't there something about the FB thinking any healing attempts are actually attacks whether there are foes up or not? I don't have the Frenzy rules so cannot check that.

 

[Xarlen]

I don't think it's metagaming to use the right spell vs. the right enemy.

'Hm. That guy's in the thick of fighting. He looks pretty strong. But I bet he's stupid!' Pow. 'Hm. He's casting a spell. That gives to reason that he's got a good grasp of his mental capabilities. But, he looks frail.' Pow.

Spellcasters know what their spells work best with. Otherwise they'd be trying to Hold wizards and fireball rogues.

Does that mean it's metagaming to not hit a red dragon with a fireball? It is, if you've never heard of a red dragon, and you don't know it's immune to fire, but what character *doesn't* hear tales of fire dragons?

And, I don't see how you figure that the FB knows it's his allies he's smacking, and not the enemy. I see it akin to a Vietnam vet having a serious flashback, and seeing everyone around him as Charly. This guy has just been beating an ogre to a bloody pulp, looks up, and just sees more things after him. So, he's gotta beat them into the ground, too. Not 'These are my friends, but I just...can't...stop my hand! Aaah! Bill, forgive me!'.

 

[Templetroll]

Re: Re: We'll see

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1 Try comming out of your rage before you drop the last guy.
[/B]

I like this one! It puts the burden of resolving the problem on the person who is causing it!

2 If your party also has a high AC fighter stand next to him. If he's got expertise when he fights Defensively your powerattack prolly won't hit.

You know the FB is going to roll two 20's to hit critically!

3 Trade in your periapt of wisdom for a Periapt of Rage Countering. A Necklace of Resistance +5 25,000gp only vs Will Saves (1/3rd cost) = 9000gp only vs Recovering from Frenzy (1/2 cost) 4500gp ?

The Barbarian needs to be the only one to pay for this.

4. What's your Barb's Sense Motive? afther the last bad guy drops eveyone can "Play Dead"

The idea of playing dead may be valid since he is attracted by upright folks, not those on the ground. You don't even have to play dead well to get the desired effect. Sense Motive, however, takes one minute to use.

 

[Ernst]

polymorph other into a goldfish or a chiken

 

[Xarlen]

polymorph other into a goldfish or a chiken

Man, that's going to be one Mean chicken.

But, his Fort save has to be amazing; you likely won't get through.

 

[Ernst]

then bestow caurs 50% likly to do nothing. and can eserly be dispeld again. and it is a vill save.
or ottos iresisteble dans ( that orth to be a sight)

 

[AuraSeer]

3. Bead of force. Not sure of your reflex save. (This can get exspensive, much like number 2)

Ooh, owie. A bead of force does 5d6 points of damage to all targets within 10'. If the FB has already gone into negative hit points, you may need a squeegee and a bucket.

 

[Malin Genie]

Thinking laterally - have the FB accept a levitation spell before combat. Then when he runs out of enemies, lift him up into the air and keep him there (as it is the caster, not the target, that controls the vertical movement IIRC.)

Just make sure he doesn't have anything heavy and throwable with him...

 

[Metalsmith]

We read the same words and come to a different conclusion. I don't see it as "inefficient", I see it as "doesn't work that way". A raging barbarian "becomes reckless and less able to defend himself." This is shown by the -2 to AC.

Yes, and that's when the penalty stops. Read Rage and read Frenzied Bezerker and please show me where it says you can't use a shield. I think -2 AC for Raging and -4 more for Frenzy-ing = -6 AC penalty is enough without you trying to add some additional penalties.

I do not see any action like Fighting Defensively as being allowed when enraged or frenzied. It is a sane and rational mind that can take actions to overcome hindrances or difficulties; raging and frenzy are not that! Okay, an insane person can use a shield and dodge also but I mean a non-enraged and non-frenzied person.

The House Rules Forum is over there somewhere (points).
Using a shield takes neither Concentration or Patience as an example You always get the shields AC benifit even when Flatfooted.

Please see the part about "reckless" and "less able to defend" again. I find that a vital aspect of rage and frenzy and don't understand how anyone else can miss it. It is sane and reasonable to use a shield to defend with; a raging madman does not take sane and reasonable actions in the midst of bloodlust. i don't see a shield as anything other than a big 'thing' on the arm of a FB, it is not being used by him.
Rogue want to stab me in junk! Rogue bad, rogue die now! Me not coward like Rogue who hides! Me get rid of this razzlefrazzit shield so me can hit bad people harder! Two hands on the weapon get the extra damage bonus that would be most entertaining to a FB.

Points again in the general direction of the House Rules Forum.
It's fine and dandy however you want to run it in your games, but keep in mind:
Ragin and Frenzying Bezerker gets +10 to STR and an Additional Attack, +4 to CON, -6AC (holy creep!) and 2 points of Subdual Damage a Round. Unless the player carefully keeps track of his HP and Subdual Damage and comes out of his Frenzy early (which avoids this whole discussion) he can eaisly get into the situation of when his rage ends so does his life.
The Real Problem occurs when the character gets Deathless Frenzy. If he sustains enough damage to kill him he eagerly attacks the other party members cause if he doesn't he will die, and the Party may not bring him back anyway.

Metalsmith

 

[Metalsmith]

Re: Re: Re: We'll see

The idea of playing dead may be valid since he is attracted by upright folks, not those on the ground. You don't even have to play dead well to get the desired effect. Sense Motive, however, takes one minute to use.

Yeah, otherwise the Bezerker player can go around and take full round Cou De Gras against the fallen enimies before going after his partymembers.

Sense Motive 1 minute! Are you shure it would apply in this case? You can Bluff in combat, and out of combat, (Bugs Bunny disquised as an old woman) "He went that away!" (Elmer goes down the Dark Alley)

Metalsmith