D&D 4E How would you re-envision Ravenloft for 4e.

[Jon Wake]

You don't mean devamping?

Yeah, Ravenloft (or any D&D setting) never met a cliche it didn't dry-hump to a nub.

 

[jdrakeh]

You don't mean devamping?

Nope. I mean revamping. Gothic horror can be a lot of fun and it can be original. These two things aren't mutually exclusive as films such as Underworld and companies such as White Wolf have proven. Now, I'm not saying that a newly re-imaged Ravenloft needs to be leather, sex, and guns -- but it does need to find a new, exciting, way to relate old tropes.

 

[jdrakeh]

Yeah, Ravenloft (or any D&D setting) never met a cliche it didn't dry-hump to a nub.

'Cept maybe the original Dark Sun box set, which was fairly alien.

 

[The Little Raven]

The 'secrets' of Ravenloft might be secret-ish in the context of the game but they're not anything new in the context of the genre.

Honestly, there can be nothing new in the context of the genre, since it's all been done before. Even Solomon once said "There is nothing new under the sun," and that was more than 2,000 years ago.

Ravenloft, at its core, lacks a wealth of truly surprising, truly original, truly horrific imagery.

Well, how exactly do you define original? By the standard definition, almost nothing in D&D is truly original, since it's all derivative of other works. Hell, by using gothic horror as it's premise, it sacrifices originality in order to adhere to the vision of a genre that has been developed for the past century.

 

[The Little Raven]

Underworld

You just made me spray my monitor with vodka!

Are you really suggesting that a movie about vampires and werewolves involved in a war that began long ago, in which elder vampires sink into a deep sleep to awaken centuries later, in which vampire-werewolf hybrids are super-powerful "abominations", a group of assassin vampires, and a Romeo-and-Juliet-style forbidden love story forms... is original?

I might be tempted to agree with you if the original World of Darkness didn't have a vampire-werewolf "war" raging from ancient times, or torporous vampires that awaken to control modern society, or werewolf-vampire hybrids that are overpowered and called Abominations, or a clan of assassin vampires... or a short story by an excellent author called "Love of Monsters" that deals with a vampire and werewolf falling in love.

To me, the only original thing that movie did was make Kate Beckinsale super sexy.

 

[Jon Wake]

You just made me spray my monitor with vodka!

Are you really suggesting that a movie about vampires and werewolves involved in a war that began long ago, in which elder vampires sink into a deep sleep to awaken centuries later, in which vampire-werewolf hybrids are super-powerful "abominations", a group of assassin vampires, and a Romeo-and-Juliet-style forbidden love story forms... is original?

I might be tempted to agree with you if the original World of Darkness didn't have a vampire-werewolf "war" raging from ancient times, or torporous vampires that awaken to control modern society, or werewolf-vampire hybrids that are overpowered and called Abominations, or a clan of assassin vampires... or a short story by an excellent author called "Love of Monsters" that deals with a vampire and werewolf falling in love.

To me, the only original thing that movie did was make Kate Beckinsale super sexy.

Underworld! Filthy movie, *ptew*! And we shall speak of it no more!

 

[Belorin]

Well I for one like the way Ravenloft is presented, the Mists, the Vistani and the Domains. Any changes would be to bring it in line with 4E.
Instead of a demi-plane on the Ethereal, make it a part of the Shadowfell. The Mists and the Dark Powers have created a prison for the Darklords in the Domains. At the moment of their creation the Mists descend from the Shadowfell and draw the Domain into itself.
As the Shadowfell somewhat mirrors the Prime plane, this is better than the demi-plane.
The Vistani are a race that inhabit the Shadowfell as a punishment for a crime they do not remember, they must guide travelers through the Mists and keep the secrets of the Dark Powers.
All classes & races are viable in Ravenloft, plus some not yet scheduled for PHB I, especially classes based on Renaissance era archetypes, the less armored, finesse types.
New Domains based on Teifling and Dragonborn Darklords can be added.


Bel

 

[Najo]

The history of the realm is a history of conquest and bloodshed, of deposed tyrants and slaughtered uprisings. Everywhere you go you see evidence that something has gone terribly wrong. Gibbets hang from the crossroads packed with misshapen skeletons. The old men say that if you taste their flesh you'll learn the secrets of the grave. Children dare each other to do it and every season a few children come down with night terrors that take their lives.

There's a manor deep in the woods where only a black coach goes, pulled by horses that reek of grave earth. People know better than to look the driver in the face. A faerie circle in the deepining woods is avoided even by the elegant eldarin, who refuse to speak of that place and the screams that sound from it on winter nights.

There are some who do not hide from these things. All have been touched by that vile intelligence in some way. Some touched the dead hand of their loved one and knew that behind it was more than just a random murder. Others delved into the oldest secrets and learned the corrupting names of the still-born. Some simply asked too many questions. But all learned the same thing.

The world is wrong.

Someone has to fix it.

I agree with this approach. I would even go so far to corrupt and twist some of the choices for player characters. Don't let the players playing Eldarin in ravenloft, because the feywild is corrupted there along with the shadowy masters who rule there. Elves are still played, but altered because they are surrounded by evil and use their woodland skills to hide from it.

I also agree to keep the true BBEG of the setting and the horrorific threats like vampires, werewolves and such as unexpected encounters that the players don't see coming.

 

[Jester David]

Ravenloft in the Shadowfell. :\
This is impractical. Mostly from a mechanics standpoint because there are going to be spells that work differently there and spells that assume shadowfell can be used for summoning or travel or illusions, etc. You'd essentially be removing that plane (and the normal default plane) for a strictly mood reason.
Ravenloft should have its own feywild (similar to faerie of folklore and some modern fantasy such as Gaiman's work or Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrel) and should have its own darker shadow of spirits and ghosts. The shadowfall is really the spirit-world of the recently departed which really works with the setting.

I was having a discussion elsewhere about Ravenloft's problems. Which boil down to one thing: people's perceptions.
It's seen as a setting that it's only good for Weekends in Hell. Where campaigns have to involve escape or returning home. Where darklords have to be involved, and that it's a land of pure evil. That it's a static land, with little changing politics. And possibly worse, where it's a place where DMs kill parties. And, again, where there's a werewolf in every forest and vampire in every coffin.
Really, there's no way to 'fix' the setting to prevent all that.
People will still see the "Ravenloft" name and think "PC meatgrinder" bursting to the seams with vampires and werewolves.

A widespread free release of something, even a FAQ or Beginner's Guide To... might help.

Revamping will do nothing to really attract people and only alienate the older fans.

 

[Remathilis]

People will still see the "Ravenloft" name and think "PC meatgrinder" bursting to the seams with vampires and werewolves.

See, most of my die-hard Ravenloft fans never saw it as a meatgrinder, but we played up the romantic horror elements more.

What I despised from the setting is that the world was... artificial. Back when TSR wanted every god in the Great Wheel, every world in a crystal sphere, and every domain tied to either a horror-movie cliche or a known TSR setting, it was kinda acceptable. (kinda). But there was plenty of bull that made even the heartiest suspension of disbelief come crashing down. Every domain (even ones right next to each other) had a different languages and rarely shared a single common (not as D&D defines it) tongue for trade, technology and society differed wildly that you often had renaissance enlightened lands next to gothic medieval fiefdoms. There was freaking hole in the center of the continent, and the east side of the land mass lacked a proper sea. Heck domains couldn't even agree on the nature, size and number of MOONS there were! :\

Beyond that the artificial nature of the land, you have every cliche'd monster trope made semi-famous.

DM: You enter the domain of Nova Vaasa, the wild lands controlled by Lord Hiregaad the..
PC1: Which one is he?
PC2: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
PC1: Oh, got it.

So what Ravenloft could use it a.) less ham-handed uses of horror tropes with every serial number hastily scratched off b.) a good de-multiversing and removal of non-natives (I'm looking at you Soth) and c.) a world that pretends to make sense from the perspective time, geography, social and natural sciences. I think it can be done and done well, but it needs some sacred hamburger with a side of cracked eggs...