TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
I probably want many things, but most of all: a kingdom run by cannibal halflings. 
D&D 5E How would you wish WOTC to do Dark Sun
rgoodbb
Adventurer
In my mind, if we use the paladin framework, and an oath that fits as a Templar...
Then there are no paladins in Dark Sun.
They do already have some appropriate spells:
Bless - the two half-giants under your command
Command - people to stop in the name of ...
Zone of Truth - root out the rebels
Could probably do with a crowd control spell plus Message or Sending, and something else a bit showy
Paul Farquhar
Legend
All worlds have one of those, you just have to (hopefully not) find it.I probably want many things, but most of all: a kingdom run by cannibal halflings.
Would not arcane be a good fit to correlate with ethereal plane?
Nope, definitely not. It is best IRL compared to some of the Roman or Japanese emperors, which (besides a polytheistic pantheon of "real" gods) were revered as living gods. Think that minus the pantheon, plus some elemental priests and some druids worshipping nature (aka cosmos) and you have the situation of DS.
That the Templars have a hierarchy does not make any of them gods on their own.
I probably want many things, but most of all: a kingdom run by cannibal halflings.
Well the cannibal halflings are one of the signature DS elements, but if they could form a kingdom? Questionable, it is rather several jungle tribes.
Kender?
Actually, yeah.
Because "Ether" is the fifth element encompassing the four elements of the elemental planes.
So, Arcane power source by manipulating the Ether of the Ethereal Plane can:
• Become "Ethereal"
• Influence the elements of the Elemental Planes
• Alchemically transmute the elements within the Material Plane
However
• Access to the Feywild and the Shadowfell is a different kind of magic. But doable.
Arcane would have difficulty accessing:
• The Astral plane
• The realm of ideals (Astral Sea, Wheel)
• No direct access to Positive Energy Plane but can derive positivity via Feywild
• No direct access to Negative Energy Plane but can derive negativity via Shadowfell
Say each Humanoid has:
• Body: physical body made out of elements, including Ether
• Soul: animal soul, psyche (in the sense of a "self", and psychological unconscious, id), appetite and insticts, lifeforce, bodily aura, ki (!)
• Spirit: personal human spirit, self-identity, intellect and emotions, conscious ego, knowledge, mind, language, symbols, religion, divine and psionic (!)
• Consciousness: in the philosophical sense of awareness itself, separate from any particular things to be aware of, conscious observer in weird physics
Body = Material, Elements, and Ether = Arcane and Martial
Arcane directly manipulates the properties of the elements that constitute the phenomena of the Material Plane. It is a materialistic protoscience that investigates and exploits the patterns and energies of matter. In a kind of alchemy, under extreme conditions, the ether that an element is made out of becomes available. (Compare how the chemistry of matter under extreme conditions reveals the nuclear energy that the elements are made out of.) By means of this alchemical ether, the Arcanists can access and manipulate the Elemental Planes. Note, the Martial power source optimizes the Material straightforwardly, disciplining their physical body, and forging tools and weapons out of matter.
Soul = Lifeforce = Feywild and Shadowfell = Ki and Primal
The lifeforce of the aura of the body is called Ki. Monks master their personal Ki to achieve extraordinary physical feats. This lifeforce relates to cellular healing. Likewise this lifeforce includes Souls of animals, and to some degree living cells and plants. The souls of cells and plants are living lifeforce, but they lack a sense of self, thus differ from the Souls of animals and humanoids.
The lifeforce aura pervades ones own body, extending outward to some degree beyond the body. This Ki is the vitality of living body, and also an energy field, even a force. The difficult practice of manipulating ones Ki accomplishes amazing feats, such as glancing across water, running across twigs. Healing the cells of a Body. Even influencing the surrounding environment, to imbue and animate items by means of ones own Soul.
Shadowfell is an echo of the living Souls that inhabit the Material Plane. The souls leave an animated holographic imprint within Shadowfell, even a holistic one that records the intellect and emotions. There is debate whether the ghosts of the Shadowfell are Conscious or not, but the consensus leans toward some ghosts have Consciousness and others lack it. Under extreme circumstances a ghost can animate matter, even a corpse, in the Material Plane referred to as Undead. Some Undead continue the Consciousness of the former body. But most Undead lack any Consciousness, but still might record and play memories and motives. Primalists often revere the memories of ancestors within the Shadowfell, but typically allow their ancestors to rest in peace. Necromancy to raise undead is Rare among Primalists, but necromancy to visit the grave of an ancestor to seek advice during a dream is Uncommon.
The lifeforce of the Feywild is potential, anticipating the fates of Souls of the Material. It is possible to change ones future, but is Rare. Consciousness itself by means truly freewill actions within Material, can override ones own fate. A fate is like a movie, playing out from beginning to end across time. Changing a fate, is like jumping out of one movie into a new movie. The new movie will also play out from this new beginning to its final outcome, unless a future Conscious action jumps again. Rarely there are moments in ones life when a movie ran out and now a choice of several movies exist ahead of one. Such moments expose the naked freewill of Consciousness, but are often painful, as there is a reason the previous movie ran out. The Positivity Energy Plane profuses the Feywild, and healing lifeforce energy is indirectly available via Fey magic. The Feywild appears lush and vibarant with multiplications of life.
Oppositely, the nothingness of Negativity disintegrates the Shadowfell, making the echos of Shadows appear deathly, gloomy, eroding, and rotting. The phrase "Negative Energy" is a misnomer. Actually Negativity is precisely zero energy. It is nothing at all! It is colloquially referred to as if an "energy" because it seems to have influence. But actually, anything that exists, whether mind or body, is made out of Positivity. These things can fray and unravel in the exposure to absolute nothingness. The Positivity remains but dissipates into other simpler forms. The difference between the Ki power source and the Primal power source is, Ki masters ones own Ki lifeforce, whereas Primal attunes to the web of Ki lifeforces that permeates and intermingles all that lives.
Note, sometimes Arcanists manipulate Ki, such as during necromancy or Fey healing. Strictly speaking, these Arcanists are performing Primal magic. They do so indirectly by manipulating the elements of a Body that is animated by lifeforce of Soul − often ones own Body. Thus necromancers normally entangle ones own Soul with the Negativity of the Shadowfell when performing necromantic feats. Arcane necromancy often inflicts the Body of the practitioner with a deathly appearance, being gaunt, skeletal, or even decomposing while alive. Sometimes necromancers mortify or kill the Body of someone elses Soul, but since few persons volunteer, such necromancers are typically Evil.
Spirit = Mind = Language and Dream = Astral = Psionic and Divine
The Spirit of a person is the Mind. It is a realm of language and symbols. It weaves an "identity" by naming emotions and intellectual concepts. To some degree, even being able to know and discuss things about ones own animalistic Soul lifeforce aura, is a feature of the Spirit. Dreams and their holistic experience of the linguistic constructs of waking life, are also an aspect of Mind. Normally, ones Mind is occupied with the worldly experiences of the Material Plane. Even the Soul is subtle and often taken for granted remaining unexplored. Many Minds traverse the Material across time, with little more than thoughts about the Material.
But Language can explore anything. Language remembers and learns. Language can innovate new constructs that have never been witnessed before. Language is the key to explore the unknown. Language is open to the Infinity of possibilities.
Psionic telepathy and Divine sacred community are a web of entangling Minds within the Material. And sometimes Conscious Minds in other planes of existence are also members of this mental communion.
Note, angels and fiends are "Spirits", thus Minds exhibiting emotion and intellect. But these angelic Minds lack Consciousness, thus have no freewill. The angels and fiends are paradigms of the ideals of Humanoid linguistic communities. They are cosmic forces that echo the ethical actions of Humanoids. When Humans do ethical altruistic actions the angels become powerful and helpful. When Humans do less ethical or even predatory wrathful actions, the angels diminish or even fall becoming Evil fiends. Conversely, fiends can become Good and helpful. According to some cultures, angels appear Human, but diminishing angels become increasingly animalistic, often like herd animals, gaining horns, tail, fur, hooves, or so on. An entirely Evil fiend might appear as an animal. Oppositely, as Humanoids of this culture improve their behavior, the fiends loose their animal traits, tails or horns fall off, becoming angelic Humans once again.
The Celestial and Infernal Planes are realms of Ideals and the Transgressions of these Ideals, of a particular culture and its unique linguistic constructs. In these Astral realms, Language takes on a life of its own, akin to the eruption of the archetypes of the collective unconscious. Note, each culture has its own unique assemblage of unconscious archetypes.
Consciousness = Infinity = Mysticism
During Rare moment of ones own life, the Language of the Mind contemplates subjectively the implications of being a Conscious being. It is not any particular memory or thought or experience. Consciousness is beyond the Language that tracks such things. It is the capacity of awareness itself. An infinite emptiness in which moments of experience can occur, like swirling stardust in a night. Contemplation of this Conscious infinite no-thing-ness occasionally accompany visceral experiences of the everlasting joy and bliss of Enlightenment. When persons Mind is oriented by nothingness of Consciousness, there is nothing that can be harmed. The Consciousness is invincible, indestructible, eternal, transcending all, the Diamond Mind.
Despite being a Conscious being, the Consciousness itself exceeds Language and remains "objectively" unknowable. Where Consciousness comes remains mysterious. There is a sense that Consciousness always is. Perhaps it originates from beyond the fabric of space-time. Perhaps it is omnipresent. Perhaps a material Body entangles Consciousness, somehow becoming a Conscious Body. Lifeforce grants brain, mobility, and actions. Language grants concepts to innovate new choices.
A Beast has a Body and Soul. A Beast also has Consciousness but lacks the Language of Spirit to engage it.
A Humanoid has Body, Soul, Spirit, and Consciousness.
An angel or fiend is a Spirit only.
A Fey or a Shadow is a Soul. Some of these Souls have Spirit. Some of these have Consciousness. These lack Material Body however. If "materializing" into the Material, thus gaining a Body when earlier there was none, the Conscious Fey or Shadow becomes Humanoid.
The Consciousness is mysterious. When a Conscious person dies, the entangled Consciousness can split up into different parts. Part of the Consciousness becomes the dust of the corpse, whose grave loved ones can visit to be near the Consciousness. Part of the Consciousness becomes the breath of the wind roaming the world or congregating among clouds of atmosphere. Part of Consciousness might linger among the echos of the Shadowfell. Part of the Consciousness might remain within the possible alternative fates of the Feywild. Part of the Consciousness might stay as an incorporeal member of a community of living Minds. And Part of the Consciousness can remain among the Minds of celestial planes, among the Ideals and bliss that one had most affinity with while a living Body. When a Humanoid resurrects, all of these scattered entanglements of Consciousness get reassembled back together again.
Even within the realm of ideals, the recognizable features of a person eventually fade and disintegrate becoming forgotten. It is uncertain where the Consciousness goes. Mystics suspect the Consciousness expands to encompass the entire plane, and even becoming infinite to reunite with the Infinite Mind beyond.
Psionics and Divine
When the Mind contemplates the Infinite Consciousness, there is miraculous power and influence. Miraculous because the source is unknowable. A kind of synchronicity of acausal cause.
Psionic telekinesis and Divine miracles are respectively an individual Mind and a communion of Minds engaging Consciousness, thus overriding reality itself directly. Wish is the ultimate manifestation of Mind over Matter, by means of transcendent Consciousness.
Note. Even without engaging the mysticism of Consciousness, Psionic can telepathically link with other Minds, and likewise Divine can commune with the mindful community within the celestial ideals, as the aspect of Language inherently interconnects via intermingling mental influences. There is a collective unconscious of archetypal symbols that is readily available to any language-speaking Mind. But telekinesis and miracles that override reality require mystical engagement.
In Dark Sun
• The Gray and the Black are aspects of the Material Plane. They are subtle incorporeal influences but are detectable by sensitive people.
• The Gray is the aspect of Soul/Ki/Primal and includes the lifeforces of mundane living Humanoids, Beasts, and Plants.
• The Black is the aspect of Spirit/Psionic/Divine and includes the minds of mundane Humanoids as well as mental creatures of the Black.
• The Material is the realm of the Martialist who flourishes physically, and the realm of the Arcanist who exploits its Ethereal properties within its Elements.
The Divine Elemental Clerics of Dark Sun are notable. They engage the Elemental by means of engaging miraculous Consciousness, to influence Elements miraculously, as a kind of Mind over Matter.
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Reprint the original boxed set. Job done.
Someone I know had the book Earth Air, Fire and Water. I am just starting to read it now.
One thing I really like that is less obvious in other settings is: the Elemental Planes are DEPENDENT on the Material Plane. In other words, as the planet Athas runs out of water, Elemental Plane of Water is likewise vanishing too, and will eventually cease to exist.
In this way, the Four Elemental Planes are echos of the Matter of the Material Plane.
The book doesnt mention this, but each Elemental Plane could include Deep and Shallow. The Shallow Elemental Plane of Water is all the Water − and only the Water − that exists in the Material. One only sees pools of animated water echoing the mundane life of creatures and water bodies within the Material. Deeper into the Element, the Water takes on a life of its own, and Water Elementals inhabit there. Compare the Ethereal Plane with its Shallow observing the Material and its Deep detaching from it. In any case, when the Water of Athas disappears, the Water of the Water Plane disappears too.
I am less enthusiastic about Elemental Clerics "serving" Elementals, too similar to worship, and too personal.
This quote is wrongminded: "They say there were once gods other than elementals." The elements arent "gods". Stop trying to turn them into gods. It actually ruins the setting that is supposed to be nontheistic. Let elements be elements. An impersonal force.
I strongly prefer the Elements as impersonal forces that require attunement and harmonization. Compare Daoism. Compare the setting of Avatar The Last Airbender.
That said. Clerics can have Elementals as allies. That is cool. And allies have mutual responsibilities. So in addition to attunement with an Element, any individual and community alliances with the minds of Elementals can also shape agendas among the Clerics of a particular Element. And where some Humanoid Clerics actually transmute themselves into Elementals leaving their mortal bodies behind, that sounds awesome. The Avangion appears to be a kind of epic level Elemental who was formerly Humanoid. Mainly, the Avangion is a Water Elemental, but seems to be able to include other Elements, and perhaps even the healing energy of the Positive Energy Plane.
Still reading.
The status of the Elements seems less sensical. The book tries to describe how all Four Elements are endangered. However, self-evidently, Fire is doing just fine, thankyouverymuch.
What is actually happening is that Fire is way out of control, far too excessive, way out of balance. Thus the HARMONY among the Four Elements is increasingly damaged.
Athas is a planet. And there is lots and lots and lots of earth. The earth is decreasingly fertile, but the earth itself abundant. Fertile soil comes when Earth is in HARMONY with the other three Elements. Water of rain pours down to make Earth able to sustain life. A fiery sun comes to bring plants, and sometimes a dry summer and lightning flash brings cleansing Fire to add a layer of fertile soil for future generations of plants. It is the Air that can expand and encompass the other elements, enabling them to interact with each other in a harmonious ecosystem. And animals breath the life-giving air from the plants and eat the plants to sustain.
There is so much Fire. Too much Fire. Beyond the lava underground comprising much of the entire planet, there is the baking heat of a wrathful sun.
The Water vanishes. (Wait. How? It has to go somewhere. No clouds? No seas? Is it underground?) Anyway the Water is rarifying. The harmony is undone.
The Air without a dynamic equilibrium is listless and still.
The Earth is bleak.
Life is Harmony. Life perishes across the planet of Athas.
Still reading.
One thing I really like that is less obvious in other settings is: the Elemental Planes are DEPENDENT on the Material Plane. In other words, as the planet Athas runs out of water, Elemental Plane of Water is likewise vanishing too, and will eventually cease to exist.
In this way, the Four Elemental Planes are echos of the Matter of the Material Plane.
The book doesnt mention this, but each Elemental Plane could include Deep and Shallow. The Shallow Elemental Plane of Water is all the Water − and only the Water − that exists in the Material. One only sees pools of animated water echoing the mundane life of creatures and water bodies within the Material. Deeper into the Element, the Water takes on a life of its own, and Water Elementals inhabit there. Compare the Ethereal Plane with its Shallow observing the Material and its Deep detaching from it. In any case, when the Water of Athas disappears, the Water of the Water Plane disappears too.
I am less enthusiastic about Elemental Clerics "serving" Elementals, too similar to worship, and too personal.
This quote is wrongminded: "They say there were once gods other than elementals." The elements arent "gods". Stop trying to turn them into gods. It actually ruins the setting that is supposed to be nontheistic. Let elements be elements. An impersonal force.
I strongly prefer the Elements as impersonal forces that require attunement and harmonization. Compare Daoism. Compare the setting of Avatar The Last Airbender.
That said. Clerics can have Elementals as allies. That is cool. And allies have mutual responsibilities. So in addition to attunement with an Element, any individual and community alliances with the minds of Elementals can also shape agendas among the Clerics of a particular Element. And where some Humanoid Clerics actually transmute themselves into Elementals leaving their mortal bodies behind, that sounds awesome. The Avangion appears to be a kind of epic level Elemental who was formerly Humanoid. Mainly, the Avangion is a Water Elemental, but seems to be able to include other Elements, and perhaps even the healing energy of the Positive Energy Plane.
Still reading.
The status of the Elements seems less sensical. The book tries to describe how all Four Elements are endangered. However, self-evidently, Fire is doing just fine, thankyouverymuch.
What is actually happening is that Fire is way out of control, far too excessive, way out of balance. Thus the HARMONY among the Four Elements is increasingly damaged.
Athas is a planet. And there is lots and lots and lots of earth. The earth is decreasingly fertile, but the earth itself abundant. Fertile soil comes when Earth is in HARMONY with the other three Elements. Water of rain pours down to make Earth able to sustain life. A fiery sun comes to bring plants, and sometimes a dry summer and lightning flash brings cleansing Fire to add a layer of fertile soil for future generations of plants. It is the Air that can expand and encompass the other elements, enabling them to interact with each other in a harmonious ecosystem. And animals breath the life-giving air from the plants and eat the plants to sustain.
There is so much Fire. Too much Fire. Beyond the lava underground comprising much of the entire planet, there is the baking heat of a wrathful sun.
The Water vanishes. (Wait. How? It has to go somewhere. No clouds? No seas? Is it underground?) Anyway the Water is rarifying. The harmony is undone.
The Air without a dynamic equilibrium is listless and still.
The Earth is bleak.
Life is Harmony. Life perishes across the planet of Athas.
Still reading.
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