Hs anyone else noticed this shifter wrinkle?

Fanaelialae

Adventurer
I don't think it's bad at all, except maybe compared to Beasthide (which is quite good). How often are you honestly going to bite someone as a Longtooth?

There are plenty of conditions that grant enemies advantage (invisible, blind, restrained, stunned) so Wildhunt will apply reasonably often. It's pretty nice for characters with reckless attack, but both this and rage use a bonus action. Negating advantage not only reduces an enemy's ability to hit, but also to crit, so even though it won't apply in every encounter, you'll be glad to have it when it does.
 
both this and rage use a bonus action
Only to activate. Once you turn them on they are good for the duration.

And basically, stuff Rage, advantage on every attack without the drawback is much better.

How often are you honestly going to bite someone as a Longtooth?
A melee fighter who doesn't use their bonus action for anything else I guess.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Only to activate. Once you turn them on they are good for the duration.

And basically, stuff Rage, advantage on every attack without the drawback is much better.
rage is mostly useful to counteract the negative effects of Reckless Attack IMHO. Taking a new look at Wildhunt now.
 
Wildhunt: "no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you"

Weak and very situational? Unless you pick up two levels of Barbarian for Reckless Attack....
There's a variety of ways that - and how it would ripple it's way through the system - could be interpreted.

The most out-there would be "creatures w/in 30 feet who have advantage against you can't attack you." ;)

But, more reasonably, does that mean they can't cancel disadvantage that they may also have when attacking you? That could be interesting.
Is it just an oversight that you can still have disadvantage when they use a spell or other special attack that forces a save rather than rolls to hit?

And just, generally, advantage seems to come up a lot.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
rage is mostly useful to counteract the negative effects of Reckless Attack
I mean, the extra damage rider doesn't hurt. Or well, it does hurt, but just your opponents.

Shift round 1, Rage round 2. Now you're attacking at advantage on every attack, no negatives AND you get that bonus damage rider, plus whatever other benefits come from your rage based on your Primal Path.
  • Ancestral Guardians, Divine Fury, Storm Aura damage riders on top of the base + to str attacks
  • Wolf Totem would go well with this as well, so now YOU have effectively pack tactics and your allies all get advantage on enemies you threaten in addition to you having it from Reckless Attack.

This could get nasty, but yeah, I love it in the hands of a bad guy @CleverNickName! :)
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
I mean, the extra damage rider doesn't hurt. Or well, it does hurt, but just your opponents.

Shift round 1, Rage round 2. Now you're attacking at advantage on every attack, no negatives AND you get that bonus damage rider, plus whatever other benefits come from your rage based on your Primal Path.
  • Ancestral Guardians, Divine Fury, Storm Aura damage riders on top of the base + to str attacks
  • Wolf Totem would go well with this as well, so now YOU have effectively pack tactics and your allies all get advantage on enemies you threaten in addition to you having it from Reckless Attack.

This could get nasty, but yeah, I love it in the hands of a bad guy @CleverNickName! :)
Combined with my Deft Explorer-Tireless-Ranger/Berserker idea this is a real monster. Wildhunt's +2 to Wisdom is very helpful for the Ranger THP, pretty much makes the Shifter THP redundant or at least it'd just be 2 really good sources of THP over the course of an adventuring day.

1 shift and 1 frenzy per short rest sounds pretty good to me.
 
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Undrave

Adventurer
I guess it would depend on what you consider "punishment" and "playing the game well" to be.
The game assumes PC will look for advantage as much as possible and if they exploit all the ways they can should be able to make at least 1 attack at advantage between them every round, often multiple ones. Also a Rogue should get Sneak Attack every turn to keep up damage wise.

If you make the villains ALL Shifter you're basically saying "You guys are too good at using the tools the game gives you and I'm mad, so no more advantage for you. I can still use it, though".

But throwing a group of villains with Shifters among them isn't a bad idea at all. Just se the different types of Shifter to vary the challenge.

Also note that any archer or Warlock that stands more than 30 feet away can still get advantage.
 
It is a synergistic ability,
which seems to be the problem with Longtooth, I can't find anything it synergises with - possibly Grappler feat?

RAW you can't use it with Tavern Brawler, because you can only use your bite as a bonus action, although as a DM I would allow the bite to be used as an attack action instead.
 

NaturalZero

Explorer
which seems to be the problem with Longtooth, I can't find anything it synergises with - possibly Grappler feat?

RAW you can't use it with Tavern Brawler, because you can only use your bite as a bonus action, although as a DM I would allow the bite to be used as an attack action instead.
I ran a longtooth paladin/fighter with a greatsword and the bite was pretty handy. I had Great Weapon Master, but it wouldn't activate most rounds. On the other hand, the bite was a free Str-based attack that I could use every round to apply paladin smites and battlemaster expertise dice. I could miss twice and crit with the bite, doing 2d6 + 6d8 + Str by blowing a spell slot and a fighter die.

Keep in mind that a lot of two-handed and sword + board builds don't have a reliable bonus action attack, on demand. Having a whole extra attack to apply riders has its uses.
 

Coroc

Adventurer
I ran a longtooth paladin/fighter with a greatsword and the bite was pretty handy. I had Great Weapon Master, but it wouldn't activate most rounds. On the other hand, the bite was a free Str-based attack that I could use every round to apply paladin smites and battlemaster expertise dice. I could miss twice and crit with the bite, doing 2d6 + 6d8 + Str by blowing a spell slot and a fighter die.

Keep in mind that a lot of two-handed and sword + board builds don't have a reliable bonus action attack, on demand. Having a whole extra attack to apply riders has its uses.
When you are bitten by a paladin does that turn you into an angel?
 

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