Huge size and AoO

[radmod]

Since I've been playing more recently, I am constantly being amazed to discover that a rule that I play a certain way turns out I've been playing incorrectly, or that my group has been playing a rule incorrectly and didn't know it until I've pointed it out.

Now we've discovered a new dilemma, and I've yet to find a definitive answer so I thought I'd see if anyone can point me to the answer.

Situation: PCs are fighting a huge(tall) creature (15' natural reach). P1 is adjacent to the creature. P2 is 20' away and moves directly behind P1 along the 'row'.
Does the creature (C) get an AoO against P2?

CCC
CCC P1 P2 <<<<(P2's path)<<<
CCC

One player says: yes, because anytime you move from one threatened square to another you provoke an AoO.
Another player says: no, because you cannot make an attack through P1, so no AoO.

What say you all?

 

[Herzog]

yes.

Check the rules for Big Creatures and Cover (PH151). P2 does not have cover in the square he is leaving.

other than that:

Cover and Attacks of Opportunity: You can’t execute an attack
of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you.

Soft Cover:

Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with
cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC.
​

and

When making a melee
attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach​

weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

which would mean no.
​

 

[anest1s]

He has cover, which means no attack of opportunity (looking at page 152 PH 3.5)

Edit: A line starting from either corner of the huge creature,and ending on the opposite corner of the P2 definitely crosses the border of P1's square. (just the corner, but mathematecally it does)

 

[Vegepygmy]

He has cover, which means no attack of opportunity (looking at page 152 PH 3.5)

Edit: A line starting from either corner of the huge creature,and ending on the opposite corner of the P2 definitely crosses the border of P1's square. (just the corner, but mathematecally it does)

The corner doesn't count. P2 does not have cover from P1, and thus provokes an attack of opportunity.

 

[anest1s]

The corner doesn't count. P2 does not have cover from P1, and thus provokes an attack of opportunity.

As much as it makes sense to me (miniatures aren't square ) I can't see how a corner is excluded from the borders of the square, and I can't find any special rule for the corners either...

 

[Andion Isurand]

CCC
CCC
CCCP1P2<----

view from the side

from overhead, it seems the huge crature has lots of room....

 

[irdeggman]

He gets an AoO, soft cover only appiles to ranged attacks..

SRD

Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

PHB errata

Soft Cover

Player's Handbook, page 151 Soft cover works against ranged attacks, not melee attacks.
In the first sentence of the paragraph, change “melee” to
“ranged.”

 

[Herzog]

But:

When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

​

 

[radmod]

As much as it makes sense to me (miniatures aren't square ) I can't see how a corner is excluded from the borders of the square, and I can't find any special rule for the corners either...

Yeah, this has always been problematic to me.

One argument is that since cover requires a line that "passes through" a border, a corner does not count because passing through means to enter at one end and exit through another. In a corner, you are not "passing through" the border because you are entering and exiting on the same side of the border.
Yet, cover is provided by anything whose border blocks line of effect. Line of effect is "like line of sight for ranged weapons." In the example of line of sight on p. 139, the corner obviously counts for blocking line of sight (effect). Therefore, corners count.

That said, take this annoying example:
-----XXXXXXXXX
B ------------------->M
-----XXXXXXXXX

Bowman wishes to shoot Mage. However, Bowman cannot select a corner to fire from where at least one line does not pass through the borders of the walls. Therefore, the Mage has cover. I don't know anybody who would do it that way.

 

[radmod]

Okay, so following Herzog's posting, neither player would be right. I didn't really get into the argument because the DM immediately agreed with "Another player." Add to that, I specifically left out the other PCs in the example, which if I had would've provided cover (as I suspected).

One of the reasons I posted this was to see if anyone would bring up a three dimensional argument. I seem to be unique among the DMs I've seen because rarely do the DM's do things three dimensionally. Perhaps it's because I always seem to have flying creatures and I don't use battle grids (but the old 1 inch = 5 ft.). My ruling would've been since the creature's height is 3 spaces then he would've been able to AoO into the spot 15' away (but not 10' away for the two obvious reasons).