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Hunter is a pretty great class

JPL

Adventurer
Riddle me this --- is there any real advantage to the crossbow build?

Stalker's Mist is great, maybe too great. I like Ranger's Agility for the hit-and-run tactics --- +2 power bonus to speed, and whenever you shift, the distance you can shift increases by 1 square.

The Rapid Shot feature worked fine for me --- only problem was that my DM did critical failures on a natural 1, so lots of attack rolls = three broken bow strings over the course of 4 fights.
 
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Unwise

Adventurer
[MENTION=7884]Al'Kelhar[/MENTION]
I agree about long range fights being outside the combat-as-sport style of 4e as envisaged by WOTC. I enjoyed that and still do to an extent. Currently when I DM I am trying to push the players gently back to the combat-as-war style of play. In a campaign like that, or indeed in pretty much any system that is not 4e, range on a controller becomes very important.

***quick off-topic derail***
As an example, the thief snuck into an enemy camps stores and stole their bow string supply and destroyed many of their missle weapons. The party then ambushed the infantry on the plains while mounted. They had a bunch of good archers and riders amongst them. The combat board became useless as the PCs rode circles around the enemy, crippling them mongol style. It is neither fair, nor balanced, so would be a 'bad' 4e encounter.

It can be tricky to DM in instances where the attack plan leaves a player with very little to do. Fortunately, the guy who loves coming up with plans is generally the guy left doing nothing and he does not mind at all. Luckily the group is made up of people who all have a good ranged attack and good stealth (no defender though).
***end derail***

At low levels I would take a hunter as a superior controller over even a wizard. I find that control really comes down to "we need that effect on that guy" most of the time. Wizards just don't have a large enough toolbox early on. They generally have 1 minion popping at-will and 1 controlling effect. If that control is not needed in the fight, then they remain sub-par.

Hunters kind of start with 4 at-wills, 2 encounter powers and a great basic attack. While good, at higher levels, this is eclipsed by classes like wizards who end up with lots of encounter and daily powers. The at-wills used per fight drops very significantly in higher tiers of play and the wizard toolbox fills up so they can have the right effect at the right time.
[MENTION=1964]JPL[/MENTION]
IMO Any critical miss rule should really only apply to the first attack done in a turn. It should also really be of a less effect, like granting combat advantage. If a DM wants to make you break a bowstring on a 1, then he should make 20s disarm the opponent or something just as devastating.

Crossbow mastery is popular because xbows are +3 proficiency weapons. The actual feat itself is not that awesome for a class that already has aimed-shot, but it is still handy. Compared to bonuses to damage, bonuses to hit are particularly good for a controller as you cannot put your controlling effects on if you miss. Personally, I would not use it. I like the style of bows and I like rolling d12s.
 
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JPL

Adventurer
No wizards. The melee guys would drop their weapon. Not my favorite house rule, but I must admit the kids got a kick out of it.

Seems like the build I did could be optimized more for either the pure sniper role or the closer range hit-and-run . . . the former was more effective, but the latter was more fun, moving almost every round to keep as much space as possible between me and the bad guys and to line up the next shot.
 

Obryn

Hero
Riddle me this --- is there any real advantage to the crossbow build?
Plenty. :) It's pretty much the superior choice...

(1) The Superior Crossbow exists. It's a +3/1d10 weapon. You're a controller, at least part-way; that +3 to-hit is very desirable. Also, the Expertise feat gives you immunity to Cover and Superior Cover, which IMO is more valuable than a small damage bonus against isolated foes.

(2) At level 13, crossbow lets you Push 3 with Disruptive Shot. Bow lets you do some burst damage to adjacent enemies. Push 3 + Immobilize (save ends) is outstanding control on melee enemies. Meager burst damage is good for minion-clearing.

(3) You get a free feat to offset the main downside of crossbows - that being the load time.

-O
 

JPL

Adventurer
Sounds good. Flavor-wise, the crossbow hunter seems better suited for the dungeon. I think I tried a William Tell-inspired ranger in 2nd Edition . . . what a terribly crippled character.
 

Octangula

First Post
Houseruling critfails in the game do do a number on characters that make lots of attacks (what did the GM do with wizard 1s?)
For me, I think it depends on the number of attack rolls made. I'm not running a game yet, and I don't feel brave enough to use critfails just yet, but context is everything.

Something like this, however:

If one target receives a natural 1 in a burst power (like Fireball, for example) that would do half damage on a miss, then they would take no damage.

On the other hand, if you try to Fireball four gnolls and roll a natural 1 three times (actually happened to the Wizard in the game I was in), then something goes very creatively wrong...
 

Herschel

Adventurer
One of my big issues with Essentials characters is they get away from what makes 4E fun for me: codification of roles. The Hunter becaomes a mediocre controller with higher damage. The Slayer has defender defenses with Striker damage. The Vampire can operate as mewdiocre striker, defender or controller. The Bladesinger is a weak controller/mediocre striker with solid defenses. The Berserker is a backwards mess.

They're generally just weak strikers with secondary roles. They're Starlocks without the flavor.
 

Mengu

First Post
I've played an elf crossbow hunter (learned from the dwarves, has a fondness for dwarves, not your typical elf, what can I say) level 11 through 18 so far, and it rocks. As already mentioned, push 3 and immobilize is awesome. But my hunter is super accurate and does very solid damage for a controller. If I had to complain about one thing, I'd say it is the lack of a martial cross training equivalent. Would love to pick up something like Entrapping Arrows.
 

Obryn

Hero
One of my big issues with Essentials characters is they get away from what makes 4E fun for me: codification of roles. The Hunter becaomes a mediocre controller with higher damage. The Slayer has defender defenses with Striker damage. The Vampire can operate as mewdiocre striker, defender or controller. The Bladesinger is a weak controller/mediocre striker with solid defenses. The Berserker is a backwards mess.
You see, there are two things I absolutely love about the Essentials classes...

(1) A continuum of complexity, and
(2) A relative vagueness of roles.

The Slayer is unmistakably a Striker, and the Hunter is unmistakably a Controller, but they're somewhat decent in other ways, too. They contribute admirably to a party in their own ways, I've found.

Also, I'd say the Berserker is anything but an e-Style class. :) It could have been released in Primal Power 2 or whatever without a hitch.

-O
 

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