Hypersmurf's Rules of the Game Thread

[Hypersmurf]

In other words, it is confirming that these creatures, though not forced off the plane, have their abilities nullified like everyone else.

Works for me. And "nullified like everyone else" means that abilities used within the field are "suppressed but not dispelled".

-Hyp.

 

[jgsugden]

Which is almost exactly what the spell description states.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it.

-Hyp.

This is interesting to me, but unfortuantely I won't have much access to a computer for a few days, starting in a few minutes ... grrr ...

I assume you're drawing attention to "or magical effect used within" to say that magical effects can be generated within the spell area, but are suppressed. I thought that clause was there to address magical effects that had been generated prior to being put into the field, but were being subject to an attempt to exercise those effects while inside the field.

In other words, I cast produce flame on myself, then you cast AMF while standing next to me. If I tried to hurl flames, the magical effect would be suppressed.

Given the fact that other language appears to contradict the idea that spell-like abilities work in an AMF, I find the idea that you can generate magical effects in an AMF, via spell or spell-like ability, to be suspect, at best.

Oh well. I guess I'll have to see how this argument pans out in my absence ...

 

[AGGEMAM]

In other words, it is confirming that these creatures, though not forced off the plane, have their abilities nullified like everyone else.

Actually that's not how I see it. I think it means that the creatures mention cannot use their abilities et al. Ie that they don't even have the option of using the ability. That's what temporarily nullified means to me.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Given the fact that other language appears to contradict the idea that spell-like abilities work in an AMF, I find the idea that you can generate magical effects in an AMF, via spell or spell-like ability, to be suspect, at best.

That's why I called it "an interpretation"...

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

That's why I called it "an interpretation"...

-Hyp.

Well - the line about antimagic which says "No supernatural ability, spell-like ability, or spell works in an area of antimagic" would seem to say that the spell like ability does not have it's effects occur.

In the specific case of self-targeted, ongoing duration spells, their effect is to start an effect with a limited duration.

If they don't work, then they don't start that effect.

IOW - using them does absolutely nothing.

I fail to see how "they work fine, but the effects are suppressed" is compatible with "they do not work"

 

[James McMurray]

However, it's a standard action unless the ability description specifically says otherwise.

I always assumed that a spell-like ability that duplicated a spell with a long casting time used the same activation time. Is this a holdover from 3.0 or have I been wrong for years now?

That certainly makes a few templates more interesting. Half-Celestials can actually use their Summon Monster ability in combat without worrying about getting disrupted on every opponent's turn. And Resurrection in combat ain't too shabby (mainly for NPCs, because PCs would rather hold out for True Resurrection).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I always assumed that a spell-like ability that duplicated a spell with a long casting time used the same activation time. Is this a holdover from 3.0 or have I been wrong for years now?

3E SRD says "Spell-like abilities have a default action type of Standard Action".

Huh.

In the specific case of self-targeted, ongoing duration spells, their effect is to start an effect with a limited duration.

Their effect is the effect with a limited duration.

And within the area of antimagic, that effect doesn't work. Outside the antimagic, it does.

For a full explanation of what the DMG line "doesn't work" means, we check the spell description... which expands the concept to state "a spell used in an AMF is suppressed, not dispelled".

-Hyp.

 

[nameless]

This interpretation has more consequences than just allowing personal spells with a duration to happen. Technically, instantaneous spells with a personal range could happen. A teleport/dimension door always has line-of-effect to the caster, and does not require line of effect to its destination. Plane Shift even moreso. Even self-cast healing would work.

I think it only makes sense if spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities can't be used at all in an AMF.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This interpretation has more consequences than just allowing personal spells with a duration to happen. Technically, instantaneous spells with a personal range could happen. A teleport/dimension door always has line-of-effect to the caster, and does not require line of effect to its destination. Plane Shift even moreso. Even self-cast healing would work.

Except that it is suppressed while in the field... and since the spell is instantaneous, when you leave the field, its duration has already expired, so there's nothing to unsuppress.

The healing or the teleport cannot occur within the field, and it's too late for it to occur once you're out of the field.

-Hyp.