D&D 5E I allow using INT for initiative bonus, thoughts?

[cmad1977]

This tired ol' stereotype of marines being dumb grunts is pretty far from reality, IMX. Just sayin'.

Good thing I never suggested anything of the kind.
I know plenty of marines/airmen/seamen and soldiers.
Never said they were dumb grunts.
If I want someone to make a plan or formulate a strategy I'll talk to the professor. If I want someone to survive and react to the unforeseen consequences of that plan I'll look to the marine.


Seriously. No wjere in the post you quoted do I suggest anything of the kind.

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[Corwin]

Didn't you though? You mean this?...

If intelligence was a factor in hand to hand/close quarters combat, why aren't more marines professors or scientists?

Yeah. The implication seems clear enough to me. But go on and do you. Don't let me stand in the way of someone determined to make foolish comparisons using hackneyed clichés.

 

[mach1.9pants]

The most important part of a special forces soldiers inborn abilities is not reaction times or intelligence. It's determination, mental fortitude to keep going when most would give up. Like me, that's why I flew in fighter jets, I'll stick with my air-conditioned bases! But Marines etc need to be mentally touch, and in DnD that's Wisdom! Having spent a lot of times with Royal Marines, wise is not something I would generally associate. But then again being wise also means your perceptive both visually/audibly and also socially. And none of that makes sense either.

So what I'm trying to say is each stat covers a lot of ground. Dex covers reaction times (reflex saves) as well as manual co-ordination (bonus to hit). Wisdom covers being wise, perceptive and also mentally tough. In conculsion, for me, having intelligence cover not just pure genius IQ but also speed of thought (Initiative checks) I can live with.

 

[Afrodyte]

I applaud your effort. I too think Int is undervalued, but I also agree with others that initiative is not the place to beef it up. I know plenty of people who are brilliant and slow to act, and a few slow thinkers that have great instincts.

Strength is great if you are using Feats. Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master, and Shield Master all make investing in strength worth it in my opinion.

I am starting to get behind the idea of Higher Int Characters learning additional skills, or being able to learn more languages, or learn them faster. I think it fits' without being overpowered.

This is pretty cool. Here's an idea: If you have an Intelligence score of 12 or higher, you gain a number of extra skill and tool proficiencies equal to your Intelligence modifier. You must choose them from the following: Arcana, History, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Religion, forgery kit, one musical instrument or navigation tools. Instead of a skill or tool proficiency, you may learn another language.

 

[Afrodyte]

The most important part of a special forces soldiers inborn abilities is not reaction times or intelligence. It's determination, mental fortitude to keep going when most would give up. Like me, that's why I flew in fighter jets, I'll stick with my air-conditioned bases! But Marines etc need to be mentally touch, and in DnD that's Wisdom! Having spent a lot of times with Royal Marines, wise is not something I would generally associate. But then again being wise also means your perceptive both visually/audibly and also socially. And none of that makes sense either.

So what I'm trying to say is each stat covers a lot of ground. Dex covers reaction times (reflex saves) as well as manual co-ordination (bonus to hit). Wisdom covers being wise, perceptive and also mentally tough. In conculsion, for me, having intelligence cover not just pure genius IQ but also speed of thought (Initiative checks) I can live with.

I've come up with an interpretation that Wisdom is essentially your awareness of things outside yourself, from the physical environment to other people's feelings and intentions to the presence of the divine.

 

[Yardiff]

Here's some changes I was thinking on.

Average of dex, int, wis for initiative.

Str bonus only to damage.

Dex bonus only to hit.

 

[Garresh]

Considering the way that INT seems rather undervalued in 5th Edition, I allow players to use either their DEX or INT for their initiative bonus. I feel that this represents quickness of mind anticipating events rather than pure reflexes reacting to events. It seems to me that this is a minor tweak without altering too much while throwing a bone to Wizards, and gives at least a little bit of a reason not to dump stat INT.

I suppose I'm just asking for opinions here as to whether I have misjudged anything, and suggesting this as a houserule that others may want to consider. Feel free to include other smallish tweaks to increase the relative value of INT.

I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but along with the overvaluation of DEX, I think it requires some adjustment.

Thanks for reading!

My only criticism is that this moderately nerfs the already mediocre Champion Fighter, as it means they no longer get a bonus to initiative at level 7. I would maybe buff them concurrently by allowing them to apply their proficiency bonus to initiative checks.

 

[Eggs Benedict]

Nice catch, Garresh - I had forgotten about that Champion initiative bonus.

I think taking a few changes suggested in this thread could do the trick.

Maybe:

Initiative = (DEX + WIS)/2
STR for dmg bonus, DEX for to-hit bonus
INT bonus/2 = extra knowledge skills

As I mentioned earlier, it's frustrating that in order to solve a few issues that bother me I end up creating complicated houserules. I think this is a good chance for me to get ideas on the topic, regardless of whether I even end up implementing them.

 

[Corwin]

Bard Jack-of-All-Trades applies to initiative as well, if I'm not mistaken...

 

[Ancalagon]

Part of the difficulty here is that unlike 3.x, where a single skill point was a small bonus, in 5e a single skill as a bonus is a pretty significant thing. Giving bonus skills for every + bonus of int is too good. But that avenue is the most logical one to pursue so...