D&D 5E I demand randomization in 5e.

[tlantl]

Yes, I want random treasure tables in the game. No, I don't want to be forced to use them - in fact, I want the game to include guidelines for how much magic I 'should' place if I'm not using the tables... and I want to be free to ignore those as well!

One other thing I most definitely want: I want the tables to be updated when new items are introduced to the game!

Now, obviously, it's too much to ask that every book that introduces a new item provide updates. However, books like the "Magic Item Compendium" absolutely should. (And I'm not a fan of the 3e MIC's switch from DMG-style tables to 4e-style "item level" tables, but that's another rant.)



Ah, then you're in luck! The 3e DMG was set up so that if you just rolled treasures according to the treasure tables that were also in the book, then on average the results would line up quite neatly with the WbL table. Sure, sometimes the party would find a huge hoard, sometimes a disappointingly small one... but over the piece they would hit about the 'right' advancement rate.

Of course, 3e did have several other weaknesses, some of which you mentioned. But that one, at least, had a built-in fix.

That's pretty weak when by the end of the adventure if the players didn't have their 55,000 in goods and coins I wouldn't hear the end of it. Not to mention that it would leave the group under powered for the next level of monsters.

I'm sure you mean well but I have experienced these things first hand and it basically sucked.

It sure ain't the same as the biggest pile of treasure the group finds in a month is 10,000 copper pieces. Of course the thirteen encounters needed to level could take two months using the grid iron for combat.

 

[delericho]

That's pretty weak when by the end of the adventure if the players didn't have their 55,000 in goods and coins I wouldn't hear the end of it.

As I said, it works out on average. Besides, WbL was always intended as a guideline, not a requirement - complaints that the random rolls didn't favour them should be treated with the scorn they deserve. And I'm sorry that that's blunt, but what you're describing is a player issue, not a system issue.

Not to mention that it would leave the group under powered for the next level of monsters.

Now, this would be an issue, if the game was finely balanced. But the truth is that WbL was always an inexact tool, the CR/EL system was always a very inexact tool. It makes a huge difference which treasures they find, and which monsters they fight.

I can see there being a problem if the PCs had a run of truly terrible luck (or, indeed, great luck), leading to them being several levels away from where they 'should' be. But that's an extreme case - and, of course, the use of random tables always does leave the possibility of those outliers.

I'm sure you mean well but I have experienced these things first hand and it basically sucked.

I'm sure it did. But you've already got it both ways - if you don't like WbL, the game provides random rolls; if you don't like random rolls, the game has WbL. What more can you possibly want?

 

[Steely_Dan]

Ya know, with all the knicker-swinging lately, i'd like D&D to to go completely random, with everything, EVERYTHING! *said like Gary Oldman in Leon/The Professional*

 

[Thac0 the Barbarian]

Mark me down as a vote for random treasure tables as well. They allow the world to become a little more organic, where the path that character development takes is influenced by happenstance, rather than planned out. One of my most fun characters was a ranger who ended up an axe of hurling based on random rolls in 2nd edition. He simply took hand axe proficiency at his next opportunity and retired his longsword from that day forth. In order to keep players engaged, we always had the players choose the "winning numbers." So if you had a 30% chance of finding platinum we would call out 4,5, and 7 and then DM would role the die and see if we were winners. It was as much fun as combat itself.

 

[Stormonu]

That's pretty weak when by the end of the adventure if the players didn't have their 55,000 in goods and coins I wouldn't hear the end of it. Not to mention that it would leave the group under powered for the next level of monsters.

I had one player who tried to keep track of the group's WbL and when they fell under and he pointed it out, I told him to "suck it". There had been plenty of times in the past they'd scored above average and I always thought the WbL was too generous anyways.

I found when the party was underpowered - which was rare, in my opinion - they just got more creative and smarter about fighting the bad guys.

Yes, it can be disappointing to get a small haul after a fight. But I think that D&D has for too long inspired too much greed with the idea of looting every fallen enemy for the last coin they can scrounge.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I'm a big fan of randomization. I love chargen in LBB Traveller. But ... not in awarding treasure. I've no problem with putting treasure in random generation tables. It's even nice to have it in a convenient list. I'm just going to pick what I want to hand out though.

With the recent article on how they're trying to make magic items more unique rather than +3 whatever, I'm even less inclined to go random. Such items are going to be a lot more situational, and I'm going to have to be careful not to award treasure that totally nullifies planned challenges, PC abilities, or planned plots.

 

[ren1999]

Random treasure generator? I love and miss that. I also would like to have it back. We always rolled after the encounter.

 

[slobo777]

Random treasure generator? I love and miss that. I also would like to have it back. We always rolled after the encounter.

In 4E I've taken to printing out around 20 "suitable" item cards (one or two from PC wishlists), shufflling them, and having one of the players pick one.

I'm selecting to match the PCs, and the themes of the current encounter (e.g. filter for "Shadow" and by level in Compendium, then pick out the ones that show up).

I then narrate how/where the item was found (e.g. if they picked out an implement, it would be possession of an enemy spellcaster).

It's gone well so far. Not sure I'd want to use a massive generic random table. Items would need to be used and applicable widely for that to be good for our group.

However, there are things we've not yet seen in the 5E playtest material - what items and treasure are *for* in the game system, and how easy it would be to convert unwanted/unusable stuff into something interesting for the group. Also how rare special items are assumed to be by default. This colours the perspective on how much fun randomness would be.

Random tables in general are good generators of source material for ad-hoc adventures, sandbox-y games etc. Quite happy to see some of that in any game, and offload story decisions to the dice for a bit of variety. Probably used sparingly when I'm DM-ing, so not a #1 priority for me. I'd still get them if published though . . .

 

[isaaczeke]

Random treasure generator? I love and miss that. I also would like to have it back. We always rolled after the encounter.

I totally agree that random treasure tables were great. They needed to be tweaked a bit, sure, so that the Orc King didn't have a Ring of Fairy wishes or whatever. But I liked the fact that players often got items they didn't want, so they had to establish business/merchant contacts in order to sell their loot and buy new stuff. Of course, they never got full price for the stuff the sold, so it was still exciting when they found some random item that they wanted in a dungeon. It made for a more organic game and a more in-depth narrative.

 

[Jacob Marley]

I totally agree that random treasure tables were great. They needed to be tweaked a bit, sure, so that the Orc King didn't have a Ring of Fairy wishes or whatever. But I liked the fact that players often got items they didn't want, so they had to establish business/merchant contacts in order to sell their loot and buy new stuff. Of course, they never got full price for the stuff the sold, so it was still exciting when they found some random item that they wanted in a dungeon. It made for a more organic game and a more in-depth narrative.

No, no, no. This was part of what makes random treasure tables so interesting. This is how story can be generated. The PCs should be asking themselves why the Orc King had the Ring of Fairy wishes. There is an entire story there waiting to be told. This is exactly why I love random treasure tables.