I don't get high-level D&D (merged)

[Wippit Guud]

 

[cildarith]

One pie comin' right up!

 

[maddman75]

I think the biggest problem is that combat, IME, tends to become an all or nothing affair. It's MUCH more dangerous to adventure at 15th+ level than it is to adventure at 5th. For one, the -10 window never gets any bigger. While it's usually enough to protect you from an orc claw or ogre club, it rarely does much good against a dragon's breath or demon's rampage. You tend to go from fighting to pushing up the daisies.

The other big factor is the saves. By the time you get to that level, it's monumentally easy to take out most characters by targeting their weak saves. Even if they spend feats and items to boost them up, it's almost impossible for a fighter to make a Will save, or a Wizard a Fort. Why exactly shouldn't my BBEG open every fight by disintegrating the sorcerer? Disintegrating a PC is unfun, almost as unfun as having a BBEG disintegrated. And that's almost as unfun as having castles and fortresses made obselete by disintegrate. (I really don't like that spell).

I'm one of those whose campaigns peter out not too long after the PCs hit the teens. And it isn't just me, my players even said that they were ready to be 'just regular folks' again, going into a dark cave filled with humanoids or something.

And if me and my group prefer to play in the mid levels, what's it to you?

 

[Umbran]

You may not be crazy, but you are somewhat incorrect. Specifically...

Tweaking rules to make it easier on you to run is lazy.

In the same way that creating the cotton gin or the telephone was lazy? Heck, one of the best things about 3.xE is that it the rules are more self-consistent and simpler to ajudicate - and therefore easier to run!

Making the game easier to run is one good way to increase everyone's enjoyment. When it's easier to run, the DM has more time and energy to concentrate on story and excitement.

 

[Piratecat]

Phoenix started a redundant second thread on this topic. When I merged the two, the poll carried over. I've since closed it.

 

[Phoenix_Knightwind]

You may not be crazy, but you are somewhat incorrect. Specifically...



In the same way that creating the cotton gin or the telephone was lazy? Heck, one of the best things about 3.xE is that it the rules are more self-consistent and simpler to ajudicate - and therefore easier to run!

Making the game easier to run is one good way to increase everyone's enjoyment. When it's easier to run, the DM has more time and energy to concentrate on story and excitement.

Let me clarify my statement. I am all for rules fixes. I am a firm believer that D&D gets better with every update. I also believe that there are many playters out there who are savy enough to recognize when the SRD or OGC rules they play with are broken and can fix them with house rules.

My statement was targeted at those with the mindset of "I'll change the way teleport works so my players can't get there as easily". I believe the correct response to be "I'll create a craftier villain whose tactics will slow the PCs down."

 

[Nine Hands]

I play in Nine Hands game, and one of the most memorable sequences, for me at least, was when we BSTed the bad guys, kicked their behinds, and teleported away.
<snip>

Pretty heartpounding sequence.

PS

Yeah, that was one of the best sequences with that half dragon sorcerer that I ran. The other one being the kick him in the junk and take his stuff fight that happened a couple of weeks later. Here are these 16th to 18th level characters reduced to grappling over a magic item since no one had any useful spells left and all of the party fighters were eather sitting on the Ethereal plane or a small smudge on the ground. Great epic stuff

 

[Nightfall]

High level adventuring doesn't scare me. I run a good number of them. Best ways to ensure the advantage, make DAMN sure the party can't always have reliable or safe access. Example: My Scarred Lands party ended up in a kind of limbo-style Isle where four great armies have been fighting since the Divine War and one of them has been there even longer! Now they could have just teleported in, destroyed some of the armies (if they survived the initial on slaught of high level stuff), and had fun. But trust me, they were FAR from finding out everything. Mysteries are easy to make when you don't get access to the truth. And they weren't going to get much!

 

[Bendris Noulg]

My statement was targeted at those with the mindset of "I'll change the way teleport works so my players can't get there as easily". I believe the correct response to be "I'll create a craftier villain whose tactics will slow the PCs down."

That's one way of doing it... Assuming, of course, that you don't mind looking at character/BBEG power as an arms race.

Rather, I find Teleport and many other higher-level functions to be counteractive to role-play. By this I mean that, for me, my group, and many others, part of the game is the interaction of the character with each other and various individuals in the world, exploration of said world, and dwelling under a cloud of mystery that requires some form of resolution. So basically, my group and I change these things not because we're lazy (and I'll be kind enough not to be insulted by that remark) but because they take away the primary reason we play the game to begin with.

Edit: I had a somewhat more in-depth reply, but PC's merging lost it in the other thread.

 

[Nightfall]

Nice try Ben. (Btw Hi!)

I would say for me, best way to fix it is indeed to create crafty villians IF you're not using the Scarred Lands. Teleporting magic however in the Scarred lands isn't THAT reliable. (Hey you got arcane heat, doesn't mean that's the end of it!) But that's about the only unreliable thing in magic...in places anyway.