I don't like Dragonborn: Please come and bring friends.

[Storminator]

D&D has always had more weird stuff than any reasonable campaign could use. That's gotta stay, and it should be core!

D&DNext is going to fail unless it has a lot of stuff I'll never use in it. It'll fail unless it has a lot of stuff YOU'LL never use too. As long as it has enough stuff so I can pare down to the campaign I want to run, it'll be fine.

So yeah, more races and classes than you can shake a stick at in the core.

PS

 

[avin]

Seriously though. Wouldn't it make a lot more people happy if they created a chapter in the Monster Manual titled "Playable Monster Races" or something, and included a few dozen races that the DM can include if desired? That way, things like minotaurs, aasimars, tieflings, warforged, and dragonborn could all still be "in the core," but they wouldn't become default assumptions.

Maybe I've just been out in the sun for too long, but it seems like that would be a fair compromise.

I can compromise, as long as Halflings are removed from PHB and go to MM.

Put Gnomes in place of Halflings.

 

[prosfilaes]

But I also don't get the hate for Dragonborn. Why?
Because the almighty Tolkien didn't include them in his "bible"?
Because they actually look different than humans and are not just a human with ear or high variations?
Because they have not been featured in X other editions?
Because there is no (yet) stereotype attached to them?
Because an artist screwed up?

Stereotypes are important. It's constantly mocked, but there's a reason why there's ice planets and desert planets and forest planets in sci-fi; because worlds with all the variety of Earth are overwhelming and unmemorable in a sense. Fantasy societies crib from stereotypes of human societies to give people a quick handle to figure out what's going on. We know what the Tolkien races are; we know what Wookees and Ewoks and Vulcans and Klingons and Kender and Vampires are like. We have stories that give us a handle on that. That most of us don't have that type of handle on the dragonborn is in fact a bad thing, and the lack of a clear handle was part of the reason they dropped gnomes.

For a lot of us, dragonborn don't have a clear hook, and the fact that a lot of young new players grab them because they're cool doesn't really help that. In some ways, 2E's half-dragons and 3E's dragonborn of Bahamut were better for that for me, since they do have clearly defined hooks and obvious niches.

 

[avin]

I think it would be best if they were placed in the Monster Manual, though, instead of the Player's Handbook. This would allow them to "be core," and it would allow DMs to more easily regulate their influence in their campaign. Win/win.

I cannot agree that to put a race in MM is easier for DM regulation.

The campaign is created by the DM. If he/she says Warforged is NOT a common playable race in his game, it's not, period.

If a DM can't determine which races are in for playing it's not a design/rules/system problem, it's a DM's problem.

 

[avin]

For a lot of us, dragonborn don't have a clear hook, and the fact that a lot of young new players grab them because they're cool doesn't really help that. In some ways, 2E's half-dragons and 3E's dragonborn of Bahamut were better for that for me, since they do have clearly defined hooks and obvious niches.

Again, not a Dragonborn (or even most 4E fluff) fan, but (unless my memory is failing, and that should be kept in consideration) if there's something that Dragonborns do have in 4E is clearly defined hooks. It's everywhere...

 

[Incenjucar]

Again, not a Dragonborn (or even most 4E fluff) fan, but (unless my memory is failing, and that should be kept in consideration) if there's something that Dragonborns do have in 4E is clearly defined hooks. It's everywhere...

The main thing with dragonborn is that they haven't been around long enough for the story to be heavily established, since their story only begins in 4E. Also their race "book" was basically a pamphlet - compare that to the many full-size softcovers that elves have gotten over the years.

 

[Herschel]

Because they resemble one of the most horrid and feared monsters in the game world....

Charisma means force of personality, but you are less able to apply this force if people have an instinctive bias against you because of the way you look.

You're missing half the point though. Charisma is "force of personality". Dragonborn are naturally commanding and majestic creatures, and also can ber very intimidating, which is also a Charisma Skill.

Charisma: not just a dump stat for everyone but Bards.

 

[underfoot007ct]

The main thing with dragonborn is that they haven't been around long enough for the story to be heavily established, since their story only begins in 4E. Also their race "book" was basically a pamphlet - compare that to the many full-size softcovers that elves have gotten over the years.

The dragonborn was originally introduced in th D&D 3.5 supplement book "Races of the Dragon", from 2006. In that book, dragonborn are presented as a transitive race, members of other humanoid races who, to show devotion t o Bahamut willingly took on draconic traits in place of their original biology.



So are the DragonBorn story did not start in 4e, and has spaned 2 editions of D&D. That seems like long enough time for myself.

 

[gyor]

PHB races: Gnome, Halfings, Elves, Elderin (maybe remerged with Elves as a subrace), Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, Dragonborn, Dwarves, Humans, Tieflings.

Safe bet additions: Drow (maybe as a subrace of Elf) because it was a race the essentials core and its super popular, Aasmir because its the Tieflings traditional better half and pre 4e they were always published together.

 

[Incenjucar]

The dragonborn was originally introduced in th D&D 3.5 supplement book "Races of the Dragon", from 2006. In that book, dragonborn are presented as a transitive race, members of other humanoid races who, to show devotion t o Bahamut willingly took on draconic traits in place of their original biology.



So are the DragonBorn story did not start in 4e, and has spaned 2 editions of D&D. That seems like long enough time for myself.

The dragonborn of 4E are not the dragonborn of 3E, hence, their story starts in 4E.