I don't understand beguilers

[Felix]

I think a beguiler would make a great BBEG... you'd never be able to pin down who it was that was doing all the evil things. It would be so easy for him to set up a patsy and not leave fingerprints. If he did get foiled, he'd just need to be able to walk away and start again.

An elf beguiler would be something to contend with. His long, long time horizon means this guy is going to be methodical and careful. Contingencies within contingencies would be meet any party of PCs looking to stop whatever nefarious plans he might have.

He'd be less effective in combat, but almost unparalleled at escaping and avoiding combat: I can't think of a more irritating BBEG to face than one you can't pin down.

 

[davidschwartznz]

Having played a non-blaster sorcerer, I certainly think the game could use a dedicated non-offensive arcane caster. Beguiler is defintely a step in the right direction, but I'm bothered by the way it steps on the toes of the B&E rogue.

 

[MerricB]

Having played a non-blaster sorcerer, I certainly think the game could use a dedicated non-offensive arcane caster. Beguiler is defintely a step in the right direction, but I'm bothered by the way it steps on the toes of the B&E rogue.

That's actually the point - the beguiler can fill the Rogue's spot in the team, for people who don't like rogues.

Cheers!

 

[IceFractal]

Has anyone tried a Beguiler/Psion? It seems like it might be an interesting combination - the lack of components on Psionic powers would help with the stealth/trickery aspect, and could give it some blasting power if you wanted to go that way. Also: real Astral Constructs shaped to look more illusory + illusions of Astral Constructs that look real = pain for foes.

 

[Graf]

Beguiler would be an awesome BBEG.
Its different, its capable of incapacitating players like a combat monster –but- they don’t kill them. They still force you to use cure spells to get the tank back on his feet.
You drop a fireball on a mid-level party and you can have a TPK; you do the same thing with a whelm spell and you get to tie them up and steal their stuff.
As a BBEG (with a personality and a motivation) they generate new stories instead of ending them. Especially if they have some kind of big goal they can be a constant source of frustration –without- being a one-shot killer of the players. Especially if you give them some sort of aversion to killing (and play it up when they stop a minion from killing a PC) the players may feel compelled to give them the same treatment.

Combat wise the class is geared for dealing with PCs.
Player characters aren’t constructs or undead, and most tanks will have limited ability to resist surprise casting (spot/listen/sense motive aren’t high) and mental damage spells.
A tricky foe, especially one that does research on the party, encourages a fight-fire-with-fire response and gives the players like rogues more opportunities to be useful.

 

[Psion]

Wow. Here I was thinking beguilers were very potent.

Limited in their spell selection, yes. But they know all spell on their lists and can spontaneously cast them.

Many spells.

Many skill points.

Bonus class abilities.

The thing that it seems to lack is lots of damaging stuff. Yeah, in the wrong type of game, that's a bad thing. But really, it's a pretty potent class AFAIAC.

 

[Felix]

Another drawback nobody has mentioned so far:

In order to use their suprise casting and cloaked casting (except for Flat-fotted foes), the beguiler must be in melee range.

1/2 BAB.
d6 HD.
Light Armor.
Melee range.

That puts the beguiler at tremendous risk any time he wishes to use his signature move. I think that's worth the skills and access to his entire spell list.

 

[Particle_Man]

The beguiler might be one of the few chances for the half-elf to shine. Bonuses to face skills, movement rate to get away if the going is tough, no hit to the con in case one needs to stick around meelee for a while).

Maybe. I haven't tested this one out. I was looking for *something* for the half-elf to be better at than the other 6 races in the phb.

 

[ThirdWizard]

1/2 BAB.
d6 HD.
Light Armor.
Melee range.

Just like a rogue. Well, except for the BAB, but that's not much of a drawback anyway. They even get tumble, so that they can move in and out of melee fairly safely.

 

[monboesen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix
1/2 BAB.
d6 HD.
Light Armor.
Melee range.


Just like a rogue. Well, except for the BAB, but that's not much of a drawback anyway. They even get tumble, so that they can move in and out of melee fairly safely.

And they have a ton of defensive spells that makes them hard to hit.

For instance with Improved invisibility they can make pretty much every spell cast gain the benefits of cloaked and surprise casting,


I think it is a great class and soooo wish they had made it like 5 years ago where I was struggling with getting my female wizard molded into exactly what the beguiler is and failed. Just didn't have the right spells and enough skillpoints.


And I for one don't really care if my character makes the kill or just incapacitate the foes and let my fellow adventurers gut them.

*Anyway with the Whelm spells and the Hold X spells you can rack up the kills if you want to. Just Hold or KO your foe and then slit it's throat.