I don't understand beguilers

[ForceUser]

*Anyway with the Whelm spells and the Hold X spells you can rack up the kills if you want to. Just Hold or KO your foe and then slit it's throat.

Killing a helpless foe? Not to turn this into an alignment discussion, but that's a pretty evil thing to do.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Killing a helpless foe? Not to turn this into an alignment discussion, but that's a pretty evil thing to do.

Not to turn this into an alignment discussion, but no it isn't.

 

[monboesen]

Killing a helpless foe? Not to turn this into an alignment discussion, but that's a pretty evil thing to do.

Then knock him silly with subdual damage, manacle him, bind him, tickle him or whatever strikes your fancy.

The point is that a held/incapacitated foe is as beaten as a dead one. Some would say that is even better, because you can get information from still living foes (or you could try to redeem them if that's your thing).


PS. That particular character and group was not traditional do gooders, but more neutral. Among them was a brooding half elf priest of Justice and Vengeance and he sure had no qualms dispensing justice of the most lethal kind to helpless foes

 

[Felix]

They even get tumble, so that they can move in and out of melee fairly safely.

True, but even so it's a drawback.

And they have a ton of defensive spells that makes them hard to hit.

For instance with Improved invisibility they can make pretty much every spell cast gain the benefits of cloaked and surprise casting

Oh, no doubt. But many of those defensive spells have a short duration which means they must spends rounds of combat bringing them up; much like a melee cleric must when a fighter can just wade on in, the beguiler must cast melee buffs when the other casters can sit back and fire away and worry only about getting out of melee, not surviving it.

Sure, they're equipped to do that job, but it's something they have to worry about and spend round dealing with. Which balances them.