I hate Christmas

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Oh, I'm certain it is a great pen. But I know myself. I will lose the thing. He got me a pen some years ago which I promptly lost. I lose pens. I have dozens of them on hand because of this. Or it will sit in a drawer in my desk and never be used. He knows this. I have told him this. Basically I told him that if ever I had a pen like one of his, I would certainly lose it, or never use it. The pen itself - nice. The practicality of it - nil.

Maybe he's giving you a pen that you will strive not to lose, that you will care enough about to keep track of, and in doing that, you'll always have one nearby.

Caring about someone is putting their desires above your own.

I disagree.

A child desires to eat ice cream all the time and stay up and watch TV.

You make sure they eat 3 squares a day and go to bed.

Caring about someone is a complex situation, one not easily boiled down.

But above your own? No. That's making yourself subservient to them. Equal to your own? Yes.



Serious question for you...

What does Christmas mean to you? Honestly? Is it a time to do charity, give unto others, give gifts out of kindness, do volunteer work? What does it mean to you?

 

[Storm Raven]

A question for Storm Raven.
You said your son gave you a paper weight. Was that on a list? Was that soemthing you told your wife to hint to people you wanted? If not why keep it? What makes it different than the pen from your Father besides the price?

No, it was not on the list. He was in 1st grade at the time, and got gifts on his own. Being too young for lists, and too young to actually spend the money on the gifts on my list, I appreciated his effort. But the members of my family are old enough to read my list, and can afford to get things from it without any trouble. My father is old enough to know what I want, and what I would never want, and does. My son was six at the time, and did not. That's the difference.

 

[Warrior Poet]

I shouldn't have come back, but I had to respond to this:

Caring about someone is putting their desires above your own.

I respectfully disagree, to an extent. Like my other thought along the lines of Warlord Ralts' statement, "Caring about someone isn't giving them what they want, but it sometimes involves putting their desires above your own."

A member of my family is married to an alcoholic. Their marriage has broken down on many levels, and they recently split. My family member is very distraught, and trying to figure things out. I know that one of my family member's desires is to go back to the marriage. I care about my family member. I am unwilling to put that desire above my own, which is that my family member continue to take time to analyze and fix what can be fixed and move on and get out of a bad situation.

Now, what my family member does is that person's decision. But that doesn't mean I don't care if I think that person's desire should NOT be followed through, or fulfilled.

Warlord Ralts can probably explain this better than I can. I'm not expressing this very well.

Warrior Poet

 

[PirateMary]

Wrong. Every single one of these options places your desires above the desires of the recipient. If you were truly generous and giving, your hopes and desires would not enter into the equation. These are just gifts that make you feel better that you are guessing they will like. If they don't, they shouldn't have to feign happiness because you decided to put your own desires above theirs when you came up with your gift.

Un-freakin-believable! Well, it's all about you then, no need to think for themselves cause what you want is more important than them feeling as if they've done something on their own to bring you joy. Idiots. Fools. Thinking that they had an opinion in how their holiday money is spent. The gaul of some people.

 

[Storm Raven]

Clearly you aren't putting their desires to choose the gifts they give you above your own desires.

People keep saying that the spirit of Christmas is in the giving and the generosity. if that is so, then the giver should place the recipients desires above his own. Otherwise, you are just getting someone a gift that makes you feel good, not a gift that is truly generous in nature.

 

[Warrior Poet]

People keep saying that the spirit of Christmas is in the giving and the generosity. if that is so, then the giver should place the recipients desires above his own. Otherwise, you are just getting someone a gift that makes you feel good, not a gift that is truly generous in nature.

Which see:

A child desires to eat ice cream all the time and stay up and watch TV.

You make sure they eat 3 squares a day and go to bed.

Caring about someone is a complex situation, one not easily boiled down.

But above your own? No. That's making yourself subservient to them. Equal to your own? Yes.

Warrior Poet

 

[Storm Raven]

Maybe he's giving you a pen that you will strive not to lose, that you will care enough about to keep track of, and in doing that, you'll always have one nearby.

Either I will never use it, or it will get lost. I know this. He knows this. He knows that I do not want a pen like that, and have told him so, for this very reason.

I disagree.

A child desires to eat ice cream all the time and stay up and watch TV.

You make sure they eat 3 squares a day and go to bed.

That is not a Christmas gift, and thus, is inapplicable to the situation.

What does Christmas mean to you? Honestly? Is it a time to do charity, give unto others, give gifts out of kindness, do volunteer work? What does it mean to you?

Without getting into religious angles, Christmas is about generosity for the most part. But giving a gift that the recipient doesn't want (and you know it isn't something they want) is not being generous. It is being selfish, and placing your own desires above theirs. How is that in the Christmas spirit?

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

People keep saying that the spirit of Christmas is in the giving and the generosity. if that is so, then the giver should place the recipients desires above his own. Otherwise, you are just getting someone a gift that makes you feel good, not a gift that is truly generous in nature.

OK, the generosity is taking what you have, and sharing it with them.

In our modern society, that has translated into spending money on gifts. We have money, we share it by giving gifts.

That is generous.

See, for a lot of us, we nearly bankrupt ourselves during Christmas. Life would probably be a lot cheaper without such things, and even more cheaper if we ditched birthday gifts, anniversary gifts, etc.

But the point is, we share what we have by giving gifts. WE choose the gifts because WE are sharing our money, and our time, with the person who will get the gifts.

I wanted a Mustang or a Porche 911 for Christmas. My friends pooled some cash and bought me a Bavarian Crystal replica about two feet long made of hand carved/blown crystal. An excellent gift that I treasure far more than I would have ever treasured the car.

We share what we have, be it the time to make a nice little painting/sculpture, or cash to buy something we think might amuse, delight, or please someone else.

You say you don't like surprises, and in some ways, it feels like you've lost a lot of joy out of life. Seriously, man, working with the Feds can do that, it kind of sucks away everything to a monochrome.

Take some time to go out and enjoy the world. Take the kid to see the iced up lake, or the Christmas lights, or something like that.

Give yourself a gift, Storm Raven, and search out the meaning of joy and Christmas.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, seeing as we have completely cleared it up that the spirit of Christmas is giving people exactly what they want, why even bother with the holiday? Why bother wrapping, having presents, or even a tree?

Having a tree is enjoyable. Everything else you mention is tertiary at best.

Every December 25th, you take people to the store, and give them gift cards to a store of thier choosing.

Stores are usually closed on the 25th, but otherwise that would be fine by me.

 

[Desdichado]

Without getting into religious angles, Christmas is about generosity for the most part. But giving a gift that the recipient doesn't want (and you know it isn't something they want) is not being generous. It is being selfish, and placing your own desires above theirs. How is that in the Christmas spirit?

What are you, the Christmas police? If you want to ask that question with a straight face, kindly explain how in the hell your attitude has anything to do with the Christmas spirit first.