"I hate math"

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'm still unaware of these "variable modifiers that change round by round". It sounds like you are saying someone gets a +/-1d4 chaotic bonus/penalty to AC each round. (Hey, that sounds cool.... I'm planning on sending the party to Limbo soon....)

[Looks around at enraged "math" haters and ducks.... +4 cover bonus]

I'll give you one example...Combat Expertise.

 

[redhawk]

Calculus? I doubt it.

The game IS played at cons. The game IS played at FLGS's. The game IS played by players who will not all want to participate 110% of their time to "building" a character. The game IS played by people who might be challenged by the CALCULUS level math that high level becomes, with all of it's variables. If you make the above assumptions, I'll ask you...

What can we do to make the game PLAY better?
How do we make it EASIER, without losing complexity or challenge?

Unless you're taking derivatives or sqaure roots or any of that stuff, D&D math isn't calculus.

Algebra, and elementary algebra at that. Addition and subtraction, multiplication and division. And those last two are fairly rare.

It's not brain surgery. Bonuses overlapping as opposed to stacking makes things _easy_.

Redhawk

 

[WizarDru]

But how is that a headache for the DM? It's the player's headache I would think.

[Shrug] I dunno. Ask Flexor, not me.

 

[woodelf]

But does anyone actually play those games?

Seriously, do you have a link for RISUS? I've never heard of it, before.

Oh, sure, ask about S. John Ross's game, but not about mine.

(kidding, of course--especially since i know the link is in my .sig and doesn't need to be asked about )

 

[jmucchiello]

I'll give you one example...Combat Expertise.

Again, I've never been bugged by this nor someone fighting defensively. How does this bug you? Is it because you have to ask the player his AC every round? I'm not seeing the headache part of it.

 

[WizarDru]

Oh, sure, ask about S. John Ross's game, but not about mine.

(kidding, of course--especially since i know the link is in my .sig and doesn't need to be asked about )

Well heck, I've met S. John.

 

[Coredump]

There is no complicated math involved in 3.X

It is 90% addition and subtraction, with a tiny bit of mulitply and divide tossed in. "Calculus level" is not even on the horizon.

What seems to be the overwhelming 'complaint' is that there are too many options; and that some of these options only apply at certain times. Thus the math isn't hard, but knowing when to add and when not to add can be confusing.

It is a basic decision... do you want more flexibility? Or do you want more simplicity?

 

[Ourph]

It is a basic decision... do you want more flexibility? Or do you want more simplicity?

The two are not mutually exclusive, and can even be synnergistic if you approach game design with the goal of keeping options simple.

 

[ashockney]

The two are not mutually exclusive, and can even be synnergistic if you approach game design with the goal of keeping options simple.

Amen!

Say it again!

Others thoughts? Pitfalls from high level D&D? Recommendations to simplify?

What about this for a pitfall...

What do you fight above 12th level that doesn't have AT LEAST a 10' reach? Wizards, clerics....and that's about it.

 

[jmucchiello]

What do you fight above 12th level that doesn't have AT LEAST a 10' reach? Wizards, clerics....and that's about it.

Other 12th level fighters and barbarians and rangers and rogues? Besides, who cares if monsters have reach? Doesn't that make them more challenging?