I have Heroes of Shadows

[CelticMutt]

This, totally.
Thanks for all the stuff!



Whaaaaaaaat ?!?

Ok, now I'm lost... Did they change the whole rule for the Pact Weapon?

I'm thinking of this part:

"When you use a power associated with your pact weapon and the power has both the weapon and the implement keyword, you are considered to be wielding both your pact weapon and your implement for the purpose of feats and other game elements."

Is it still there, or is it a typo?

Probably the first thing to get errata'ed. Hopefully with the second being the Shade's racial being a standard ...

22 You get a utilty based on Vice. For Domination it's Dark Grace, a daily aura 1. If you or an all in the aura hit an enemy, that person gets 5 thp. If an ally in the aura spend a surge, they ony get half the hp, and you get the rest.

That is hilarious. The Vampire was the class I was looking forward to the most and now ... well ok it still is but now I really wanna see the Blackguard. I think these two are gonna be my favorites for a good while.

 

[WalterKovacs]

That is hilarious. The Vampire was the class I was looking forward to the most and now ... well ok it still is but now I really wanna see the Blackguard. I think these two are gonna be my favorites for a good while.

The blackguard had me thinking about the dark pact warlock's flavor/powers that hurt your allies to better hurt the bad guys. The Blackguard pulls that theme off a bit better, IMHO, and it helps to show the dark reflection of the paladin/cavalier considering the ammount of "sacrifice yourself for your ally" powers they have.

Also, I'm now very tempted to go back and build a hybrid paladin/warlock

 

[gyor]

The blackguard had me thinking about the dark pact warlock's flavor/powers that hurt your allies to better hurt the bad guys. The Blackguard pulls that theme off a bit better, IMHO, and it helps to show the dark reflection of the paladin/cavalier considering the ammount of "sacrifice yourself for your ally" powers they have.

Also, I'm now very tempted to go back and build a hybrid paladin/warlock

A hybrid blackguard/Dark Pact Warlock that picks powers that nail his allies sounds fun! Unless your the allies hehe. Still the bg should have more surges then he needs so a vampire should at least like him. Thanks again, I'm looking for to HOS.

Oh before I forget does that gloomblade Hexblade get summons like the other hexblades do?

 

[Aegeri]

Vampires don't seem bad, just poor on choices. Vampires sound powerful.

Now that I've seen a good deal (a really good deal) of the class "Powerful" isn't the word I would use. I would still use the word swingy, but with durable they eliminate a great deal of their Achilles heel - especially at the lower levels. Two attack stats (Dex for most melee attack powers and charisma for certain other powers) that can't be avoided as you're railroaded into taking them doesn't help either.

They feel distinctly underpowered as strikers as well, which doesn't help and I think they might be competing with the OAssassin for the bottom of the barrel striker wise. At the same time, from what I have read about them I do get an impression they might actually be interesting controllers. Many of their forms can escape nasty situations and they do pack some nice effects in pulling/pushing at-will (and get both of them, plus some THP generation), plus the burst encounter/dailies (that again, often seem to pack decent effects). They get a dominate and can later turn their dominate into a nasty catch-22 that also dazes when they use it to get a surge.

Overall I think as strikers they don't sound spectacular at all, especially because as an MBA is not a vampire power they can't get as much out of charge cheese as other essentials classes (eg Slayer) can. But as more of a controller role, I think they might have some real merit.

It's far from the total disaster I was afraid of though, especially with taking durable.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Oh before I forget does that gloomblade Hexblade get summons like the other hexblades do?

Yes he does, a Dark Creeper at 9, a Sorrowswornat 25.

Now that I've seen a good deal (a really good deal) of the class "Powerful" isn't the word I would use. I would still use the word swingy, but with durable they eliminate a great deal of their Achilles heel - especially at the lower levels. Two attack stats (Dex for most melee attack powers and charisma for certain other powers) that can't be avoided as you're railroaded into taking them doesn't help either.

One note on the Charisma based attacks, they have +2 to hit built in, so if Charisma is within 2 of Dex, it's either as good as if not better in terms of to hit roll, and only the at-will power deals cha mod damage (the dominating powers deal fixed damage). Considering you depend on Charisma for regeneration and striker damage, you likely will have solid Cha. [Most vampires will probably pick a dex/cha class mix though]

They feel distinctly underpowered as strikers as well, which doesn't help and I think they might be competing with the OAssassin for the bottom of the barrel striker wise. At the same time, from what I have read about them I do get an impression they might actually be interesting controllers. Many of their forms can escape nasty situations and they do pack some nice effects in pulling/pushing at-will (and get both of them, plus some THP generation). They get a dominate and can later turn their dominate into a nasty catch-22 that also dazes when they use it to get a surge.

Overall I think as strikers they don't sound spectacular at all, especially because as an MBA is not a vampire power they can't get as much out of charge cheese as other essentials classes (eg Slayer) can. But as more of a controller role, I think they might have some real merit.

The pushing at-will can be used as a melee basic attack. They don't get their striker damage to ranged basic attacks (although you should have the dex to make those), but if you want to charge, you do have an at-will attack to use (which benefits from your striker damage boost, and can trigger your no action encounter power). I'll be counting on that for my revenant vampire, as while dying but dazed, I can charge someone to grab myself a bonus surge .

 

[Aegeri]

Yeah I know about the +2 on the charisma based attacks. Didn't know that the at-will power that counts as an MBA though, that makes it a lot better. Though I do wonder what the precise wording on that is? Does it let you use it on a charge or does it let you use it as an MBA (there are some quite big differences there)? If it lets you use it as a general MBA, then the vampire also has no problems with OAs!

 

[WalterKovacs]

Yeah I know about the +2 on the charisma based attacks. Didn't know that the at-will power that counts as an MBA though, that makes it a lot better. Though I do wonder what the precise wording on that is? Does it let you use it on a charge or does it let you use it as an MBA (there are some quite big differences there)? If it lets you use it as a general MBA, then the vampire also has no problems with OAs!

It's usable as an MBA, so they can use it for OAs, charges, and anything that grants MBAs like warlords, etc.

 

[gyor]

If wraith and shadow brute still use the level 5 spell then a changeling chameleon ally of the necro/nethermancer should be able to use thier daily chameleon power to summon one too. Actually it gets better if the mancer goes archmage as the chameleon can then use imatiating strike to summon them as encounters.

Archmage is the way to go with these guys. Summon wraith as an encounter power. Want a horde? summon one, take a short break, summon another, rinse and repeat. Or Ardiot explorer and it again.

 

[WalterKovacs]

If wraith and shadow brute still use the level 5 spell then a changeling chameleon ally of the necro/nethermancer should be able to use thier daily chameleon power to summon one too. Actually it gets better if the mancer goes archmage as the chameleon can then use imatiating strike to summon them as encounters.

I'm not entirely sure. While you do get to ignore prereqs per the paragon path power, the power does say to summon a creature associated with your Expert Mage benefit ... I'm not sure if you are assumed to have the same feature as your ally, or if the power was effectively unusable.

Archmage is the way to go with these guys. Summon wraith as an encounter power. Want a horde? summon one, take a short break, summon another, rinse and repeat. Or Ardiot explorer and it again.

Whenever you use the power, you destroy previously created summons. So, you can't create a horde, but you can resummon one you had before the encounter started if it dies (or even dismiss it if it gets low on hp, and summon a new one).

 

[CelticMutt]

What are the alignment restrictions for the Blackguard Vices?