I just did something I never though I would do

[Angel Tarragon]

I do have to say that I am seriously annoyed with the direction of 4E. I canceled my preorder for my leatherbacks yesterday. I'm sticking with 3.5.

The Pathfinder Chronicles is going to be my focus with 3rd party support for it.

 

[Heselbine]

I'm struggling to understand why the GSL would have much impact on someone choosing 4e or not? Surely it's either a better game or it's not - what's the GSL got to do with it?

 

[The Cardinal]

Yep. I would rather play GURPS over 3E or 4E. That was never the case for me before 3E. With 3E D&D I found GURPS to be easier to GM or play.

Which disturbed me, I still read GURPS and try to find something to prove its more complex than 3E. Nope. Simpler. It only becomes more complex when I add in other genre materials.

GURPS4e is way better than GURPS3e ever was - and with the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series it's now my system of choice even for D&D-style gaming (though Pathfinder also looks nice)

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'm struggling to understand why the GSL would have much impact on someone choosing 4e or not? Surely it's either a better game or it's not - what's the GSL got to do with it?

One of the things that drew me back to D&D (apart from reading through the 3e PHB) was the fact that (at the time, in 2003) there was already a large amount of very interesting, somewhat or entirely compatible, material available - not all of it from WotC. That's not to say that WotC does bad stuff, let alone the worst stuff, or anything like that. More, that they make certain kinds of things, and not others. '3rd party publishers' OTOH have been, and indeed - when using the OGL - still are more free to create a vast array of very different supplements/settings/whatever they feel like. Some of the 3rd-party stuff really appeals to some people, like me for example. A license that is decidedly less free and less reliable (and other things besides) just doesn't provide the same opportunities. So - again, for some people - the OGL vs. the GSL is indeed a big deal.

I hope that's not too rambly, and gets the gist across.

 

[Desdichado]

Odd. 4e brought this 37-year old back to D&D after 3.5 stomped all interest out of him years ago.

What a difference four years makes.

36 here. Having too much fun with 3.5 still to ever consider jumping ship.

My biggest problem with 4e is that all it is is three core books. 3.5 is a robust system with tons of options, many of which I enjoy much more than the "core" options.

There's no way I could enjoy such an impoverished system and call it D&D at this point. Call me again in two to three years when there's a lot of supplements out and maybe we'll talk.

Maybe.

 

[Desdichado]

I hate some of the utter inanities in the new ruleset (alignment, I'm looking at you).

Huh. I think alignment is an utter inanity. I think the 4e solution to it was the best thing they could have done if they absolutely had to retain it for some reason.

I still don't understand why they didn't just get rid of it altogether though. Utter inanity. You called that right.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm struggling to understand why the GSL would have much impact on someone choosing 4e or not? Surely it's either a better game or it's not - what's the GSL got to do with it?

Yes. This. I hear this kind of stuff online all the time, and I think "how does that impact your table? How does that impact your ability to make houserules? How does that impact you at all unless you are an actual publisher?"

So far, I've yet to hear a coherent answer to any of those questions.

 

[CleverNickName]

I still don't understand why they didn't just get rid of it altogether though. Utter inanity. You called that right.

I kinda like having alignment in my games. I'm one of those DMs out there who awards XP bonuses for characters who follow their alignment even when it isn't easy (like a Lawful character capturing the BBEG and bringing him to the courts to face justice, rather than taking justice into their own hands.)

I hear a lot of complaints about alignment here on ENWorld, but I've never heard anyone complain about it at the game table. (shrug) Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Byronic]

I hear a lot of complaints about alignment here on ENWorld, but I've never heard anyone complain about it at the game table. (shrug) Different strokes, I guess.

I think most people who don't like it just ignore it. It's never come up in our games unless somebody used "detect x". I think some people in my group would forget their alignments if it wasn't written on their sheets

I still don't like what how alignment was changed in 4E but really it's not going to have much influence after CC anyway.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

Yes. This. I hear this kind of stuff online all the time, and I think "how does that impact your table? How does that impact your ability to make houserules? How does that impact you at all unless you are an actual publisher?"

So far, I've yet to hear a coherent answer to any of those questions.

While I don't agree with this as a reason by itself to not get 4e, I do somewhat understand where (some) of those folks are coming from. Many are likely like me, in terms of purchasing habits. I don't buy most of the shlock WotC puts out. Especially adventures, which they are horrid at writing. Most of my purchases for supplemental stuff and adventures were via 3PP, because it was BETTER than WotC.

Now, that is not quite as likely, because of the GSL. Established companies don't want to risk some of the so called "poison pill" clauses in the GSL, which is perfectly understandable! And while there will be some new companies stepping in to fill the gaps, I think most of us recall some of the early 3e 3PP stuff and its...umm...'quality'. (Though I could pray for a 4e "Death in Freeport" to kick things off with! )
Which could result (as another poster mentioned) in giving Hasbro the excuse to kill the GSL in the name of defending their brand.

I like 4e. I will likely support it, somewhat (though I hate WotC's marketing strategy and won't be buying every single book they churn out). However, I am saddened by the possibility of fewer 3PP being able to jump on the 4e wagon.
In that respect, I can understand folks passing on 4e to stick with the older edition and the support it WILL be getting from 3PP.