I like 4e, but I miss... Forked Thread: I like 3E, but I miss...

[Fabio Andrea Rossi]

Definetely agreed on shorter, quicker combats. I'd really like to see a couple of pages in a PHB or DMG suggesting options that make sense on this with 4e.

I miss more magical magic items, but that is easily fixed, more or less.
I miss the 2e psionic subsystem

I miss playing with lowest numbers in players damage and monsters HP, even if some very good suggestions are around in this forum.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I like 4e, but I miss...

...all those extra skills
...combat stats and classes for NPCs

even though I hardly ever used them doesn't mean I don't miss 'em!

 

[Dragonhelm]

I think most of what I miss has been covered, but here goes.

Settings and flavor - I, too, miss that feel from the 90s. Lots of good setting books in that time. I really wish I had the chance to play Al-Qadim! Some of the old-school flavor with wacky magic items would be great.

Alignment - Classic 9-alignment system for me, please. I find that the new alignment system doesn't work for me, especially since I play Dragonlance. I've house-ruled the classic alignments back in. Glad Charcter Builder is cool with house-ruled alignments.

THAC0 - Miss the term, not so much the rules. I liked the basics to BAB. I just wish they used the term THAC (minus the zero) just as a wink and nod to prior editions. That being said, I think THACO would make a good nickname for a tinker gnome.

Skills - I like some of the consolidation, as it makes a lot of sense. Stealth instead of hide and move silently is spot on. I always landed up rolling both together anyway. I think perception as a skill is awesome, as it allows for use of your other senses. Back in 2e, I had a character with an extreme sense of smell. That would have worked perfectly with that. However, I do miss some of the craft/knowledge/perform/profession skills. I'm trying to get to know backgrounds from PHB2 better to see if that truly covers it. Skills could really be in a middle ground between 3e and 4e for me.

Dragon and Dungeon in print - Ditto, me too.

3.5 psionics - Ditto, me too. Great system, one that went back to the flavor of 2e without the clunky rules problems. I don't know how they can recapture that flavor in 4e.

OGL - I can understand why WotC moved on from a business model, but the OGL brought us so many amazing products!

Racial Negatives - While it's simpler to add numbers, some races need to have negative modifiers! I keep going back to gully dwarves. How can you play a 4e gully dwarf without a negative to your INT score?

Ability score order - I have a hard time with Dex and Con being switched. lol

All of that being said, I'm having fun with 4e. Great system, and a lot of what I want can be ported back in.

 

[Derulbaskul]

I really like 4E but I miss...

... products by Monte Cook. How I would love to see the Complete Book of Eldritch Might for 4E (with files to update WotC's character generator).

... products by Green Ronin especially the Advanced Bestiary. I love templates! (Fortunately, designing monsters is so easy in 4E so there is still a lot of utility remaining in the 3.5E products.)

... psionics as mentioned several times already.

... the "real" Forgotten Realms. Sure I've embraced the 4E version but I suspect that once I am comfortable with the rules etc... I will go back (except I like the character generator too much... and the Player's Guide is superb too so maybe I won't go back).

However, on balance I am rather happy with things.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I really like 4E but I miss...

... products by Monte Cook. How I would love to see the Complete Book of Eldritch Might for 4E (with files to update WotC's character generator).

... products by Green Ronin especially the Advanced Bestiary. I love templates! (Fortunately, designing monsters is so easy in 4E so there is still a lot of utility remaining in the 3.5E products.)

... psionics as mentioned several times already.

... the "real" Forgotten Realms. Sure I've embraced the 4E version but I suspect that once I am comfortable with the rules etc... I will go back (except I like the character generator too much... and the Player's Guide is superb too so maybe I won't go back).

However, on balance I am rather happy with things.

OH YEAH!. Some 4e Monte Cook and Green Ronin would help draw me in in a BIG way.

I actually like 4e, but really miss a variety of the 3pp support (hence my hestiance)...especially Necromancer Games.

But, while I miss that, I hope and expect that I won't be missing it forever!

 

[RefinedBean]

I miss the feel of 3E feats. Except for the few that would give you +2 to a few skills or an attack bonus, a lot of them really felt like something different you could do (or helped make things you could do, but suck at, not suck).

It's the opposite with 4E feats, from what I see...most give you a static numerical bonus to something, and only a few dramatically change what you're doing as a character.

 

[yesnomu]

I like 4e, but I miss...

the threat of the save-or-die. 4e combat just doesn't seem as lethal if a beholder's disintegrate ray comes homing in on you.

Heh, our last campaign was just ended by a beholder TPK. My barbarian was petrified. Don't tell me there aren't any more save-or-dies...

I like 4e but I miss...

-being able to turn an enemy into a bunny and having it stick
-choosing a new spell list every single day, top to bottom
-Having a spell for any possible situation
-being effectively invincible by picking the right wild shape form
-being perfectly self-sufficient, a party of one

Now, many of these things are actively harmful to a game, and I can understand why all of them were removed. But I can still mourn the old days.

EDIT: Oh, and the SRD. The Compendium is great, but AJAX or whatever it runs on is nowhere near as nice as plain ol' HTML. d20srd.org is still one of my favorite sites on the web.

 

[yesnomu]

I like 4e but I miss...


...character classes with different playstyles.

Used to be you could swap character classes and the feel of the game would change dramatically. Now the homogenization means it's harder to shake things up by swapping characters. Not impossible, just harder.

This is one I'm confused by. The identical power structures, I can see (and agree with, to an extent), but I haven't seen any two classes with the exact same playstyle (well, wizard and invoker, maybe), and many have extremely divergent styles. My Wizard, Barbarian, Shaman and Swordmage all played completely differently. If you change roles, you're nearly guaranteed to have a paradigm shift in the way you play, simply because mechanical abilities vary so much.

 

[Derulbaskul]

(snip) ...especially Necromancer Games. (snip)

How did I miss that? I was just re-reading Tomb of Abysthor this morning for some inspiration (again!). I would love to see Necromancer Games publishing again. I know it's heresy to say this on these boards, but I have never really liked the Goodman Games adventures (although I do buy them) and I really need some stuff by Necromancer Games to scratch that itch. Oh, and Paizo too... but that won't be happening, sadly....

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Actually, Necromancer is planning to publish for 4e!

It will be happening, and work is supposed to be underway!

(what I meant when I missed it is that it isn't in existence for me to buy...YET).


When, well, that hasn't yet been made known, but they are committed to publishing for both Pathfinder and 4e.

(and when they do, I might just get a bit more into 4e).