I like the new approach on magic items

[der_kluge]

I do like the idea of guidelines, but the idea that you could come up with an exact cost via a formula was kind of silly.

We did it with the Artificer's Handbook - it was a much more thorough formula, but it was way more precise than what WoTC had - it also allowed for a lot more complexity. There were certain items that we costed using our formula which we identified as costing significantly more than what the (3.0) SRD had listed. Chaos Diamond was a good example. 3.5 cost 160,000gp; 3.0 was 93,000gp. Our cost formula demonstrated it to be worth 177,660gp. I was not surprised to see them raise the cost from 3.0 to 3.5.

I am glad to hear that WoTC dropped the whole XP thing from magic item creation.

 

[Someone]

The new approach is not to have an approach. It doesn't sound as if they have a clue how to work it yet.

Sounds the same to me. Here's what my brain translates:

"We have no idea on how item creation will be. It won't cost XP, since we changed the way XP is earned [this was hinted somewhere else] and now XP prices are quite difficult to balance, and also we've learned of our mistakes and won't provide any item creation formulae. If a DM wants to design an item, he should compare it with existing ones and determine himself the value."

 

[Stalker0]

A formulaic approach is not bad, its just incomplete.

In Arcana Evolved, every spell received an item multipler depending on the kind of item you wanted. So a 1st level scroll of X might be 25 gp, while a 1st level scroll of Y would be 75.

Standardization is good, I mean rules is what I pay for when I buy rule books. I also have the ability to go off the rules, but I'm not always the best at making new ones up.

Now I don't mind them getting off the xp track, I'm sure there's a better way to go. But I hope item creation isn't too freeform. If that's a problem for you freeists out there, then Wotc, just put in big bold letters that the formulas are guidelines and your dms can tell you to go to **** if you request something hookey

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I didn't like the 3e XP costs. It didn't make sense (you give up a part of your soul) when contrasted with the fact that every Joe Blow has about 50 magical items.

I suspect, with the new encounter-recharge system, magic items will be used a lot less. And it always felt cheesy to me to over-rely on magic items (I can only use my PrC features with the ring of evasion). I'd rather have the characters just focus on class and have magic items be rare.

However, a formula to prevent a 1st level wizard from crafting a +20 vorpal flaming shock corrosive enervating weapon would be nice, probably necessary, as at least ONE idiot DM is going to let a player get away with it.

Well, I don't know if a formula is needed. Perhaps guidelines would be better. The question isn't, can a 1st level wizard create this item, but, at what level should a wizard be able to create this item? At what level would it not disrupt the power level of the character who uses it?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Korgoth
I always liked the way it was in the 1E DMG: you had to get a bunch of kooky magical components that the DM decided upon based on his campaign.

"You must combine the powdered horn of a narwhal, 2 stones from the gizzard of a giant owl from the Withered Peaks and 17 jewels that have been desired by a princess" is a lot cooler to me than "OK, shell out 200xp and 8,000gp, bub."

i don't know anything about 4th yet but i played 2nd with this BS at Level 15 i had made 1 magic item in 2 1/2 years of game play. never made a scroll or potion not 1 it took the ink of a kracken to make a scroll of read magic. it was stupid. it was easier to kill the god hold that nice artfact then to make a +2 shortsword.

That's exactly it. Eventually, someone is going to ask, "if it's so damn impossible for me to scribe a simple scroll, why the heck does every NPC we kill carry around two or three of them?" You need a reliable and economical way of generating magic items, or else they should be as rare as chicken teeth. If you want to make magic rare, that's fine. But if you want to have something like a standard level of magic items kicking around, there needs to be an explanation for why they exist.

 

[Szatany]

How the hell is 4E handling this exactly with all that taken away? Sounds like power abuse to me. Again, the more I hear on 4E, the less I am liking it.

No idea, but I'd love it to be something like this:

Brew Potion
Level 1 (per day spell)
Casting time: 10 minutes
You create any magic potion.
Material components: appropriate for the potion bla bla bla

Craft Ring
Level 15 (per month spell)
Casting time: 1 day
You create any magic ring.
Material components: appropriate for the ring bla bla bla


And so on.

 

[AllisterH]

That's exactly it. Eventually, someone is going to ask, "if it's so damn impossible for me to scribe a simple scroll, why the heck does every NPC we kill carry around two or three of them?" You need a reliable and economical way of generating magic items, or else they should be as rare as chicken teeth. If you want to make magic rare, that's fine. But if you want to have something like a standard level of magic items kicking around, there needs to be an explanation for why they exist.

QFT

I always thought it was so weird that you needed these unique items to simply make ANYTHING (check how much effort just making a scroll is in the 2E supplement, DMO:High Level Campaigns) yet even the tribal shaman from that orc village you busted up at 3rd level had scrolls coming out of his ears but as a 15th level mage, you have to scale the gates of the City of Brass to make a lousy scroll.

I'm not going to come out against this as yet since we don't have any information really. For example,

1. If xp is not the limiting factor and you no longer need feats, what is? Gold? DM fiat.
2. How does a DM determine what is appropriate for his party? Blind luck until he gets it down right?
3. If magic items are changing, how does this affect the monsters?

Lots of questions but I guess we'll have to wait until Xmas to get a clearer view.

 

[Commonblade]

I think your right

No idea, but I'd love it to be something like this:

Brew Potion
Level 1 (per day spell)
Casting time: 10 minutes
You create any magic potion.
Material components: appropriate for the potion bla bla bla

Craft Ring
Level 15 (per month spell)
Casting time: 1 day
You create any magic ring.
Material components: appropriate for the ring bla bla bla


And so on.

I think your right. Players will take feats that will allow them to create items on a per/XX basis. It will probably be limited by level, but as you level your ability to make better and better items will increase. This opens up the door on Crafters making unlimited number of items and selling them off as a profit. So I would expect it to "cost" something. Like loss of a spell slot of the appropriate time during the crafting of the item.

Example:
Hennet wants to make a ring, for the next month he must give up a spell slot to power the crafting of his ring and must dedicate an hour of every day to empowering the item.

Effectivly eliminating a resource and time for the player. I also half expect a slight change in the way magic items work. Scrolls will let you swap out a spell you have prepared for the one on the scroll, Wands will grant extra templates that will be tied to the "warlock" blast every mage-type gets, Staves will do both.

Least thats what I think. :\

 

[fuindordm]

There was that comment from James Wyatt on '+6 wands'. It would be pretty cool if wands didn't hold spells, but actually raised the DC of a specific spell. And kind of Harry Potter-ish, too.

Anyhoo, the cost of a magic item should always be significant. That's why the XP cost worked so well for 3E. Money is also always a significant cost, and the 3E formulas made that scale fairly well with level. The beauty of this system was that HP and GP are both recoverable over time.

Giving up spell slots for a time? Not significant, except in campaigns where down time isn't a premium. I don't think the core rules should assume that PCs will have little down time.

 

[Commonblade]

Granted. But the "feel" I am getting from the preview stuff is that they want to keep game play moving. Less slow down in-between encounters. Removing spell slots for a time period would be felt in such fast paced game. Especially if those spell slots are needed to power wands and scrolls and staves. If XP is not going to be a resource then something else is going to take the hit. I wouldn't think gold, so I feel that leaves the players other form of resource.

BTW, I think that is a great idea for Wands.