I Love Gaming but I Hate Gamers!

[Henry]

Just a reminder let's keep it respectful; I noticed some slightly heated posts from a few hours ago, and wanted to be sure everything's O.K.

I'm still leaning more toward fusangite's experiences though; maturity as a general thing scales along age lines; there's always unique individuals and they're welcomed, but I don't expect to find them as a general rule.

For Gruf: Listen to Teflon Billy. He is the ENWorld equivalent of the Dalai Lama - he just doesn't know it.

 

[William Ronald]

Edena - bear with me here- I am not disagreeing with you.


You make these statements and they make sense to me.

But this next part made me realise somthing.



So what you are saying is that many people and even a number of gamers themselves think that there is a larger proportion of people who are socially maladjusted in the gamer population and that you disagree with that notion. I see your point and I am inclined to agree.

However your statement about the distressing number of gamers that insist that most gamers are maladjusted made me articulate somthing I have been trying to articulate for some years now. That there is a large portion of the gaming populous sees being a gamer as a stigma, and they embrace that stigma. There is a defintite subculture of gamers that rather than adjust socially would rather wear their social rejection like a badge. They wallow in it.

Its a problem of self image. Most gamers would say yes I am a gamer. But these people say "I am a gamer, and people don't like gamers except other gamers, and so I will avoid all other people but gamers and in that company I have no social bounds"

I have seen this with other subcultures. It exists in anime fandom, among the trekkies, in hacker circles, punk culture, the rave culture etc. Its the tendancy to take an interest and make it your excuse for social ills and these people tend to give whatever subculture they are in a bad rap. They are also more likely to self identify with the subculture. As in "I am a gamer." Most gamers would not identify themselves as such right off the bat. I throughly believe that it is these people, the ones that self identify as gamers and use that identity as an excuse for their behevior that give the gaming populous the stigma that so many are concerned about it.

It seems to me that there are three groups. One is the people who don't care about the stigma. The other is the group trying to fight it. And the final group is the one that wants to keep it.

Jester47, I think that your post makes a very important point. I have seen some people in different subgroups embrace stigmas and stereotypes (THAT would be a horrific and ugly name for a game) . Sometimes, I have seen people use membership in a group to justify behavior. I find this to be somewhat disturbing, as I try to relate to people as individuals. I have seen some people fight very ugly stereotypes, so I have been puzzled as to why people might chose to embrace a stereotype or a stigma. Possibly, some people do so as a way to create a group identity to separate themselves from others. Thus, a member of a subculture who choses to embrace a stereotype might be doing so in an effort to defy the larger culture. Some p[eople may embrace a stereotype to limit their contact to people from other subcultures. (That this may end up reinforcing the larger culture's beliefs may not matter to those who chose to embrace the stereotype.)

Am I a gaming? Yes, but I am also many other things besides. In the case of gamers, I have noticed some people claim that "most gamers are social inept and have poor hygiene, but I am an exception. " Or they say that the stereotype is irrelevant or proclaim it.

For myself, I have seen gamers who seemed to embrace a stereotype. This has ranged from people at conventions who seemed to be staying in their cars to those who view any criticism of their game styles as an attack on their persons. Most gamers I have met don't seem to fit the stereotypes. However, I have run into them and wondered why they seem to fit the stereotypes that we hear and read about.

I think that those individuals who just stick to a subculture lose out of meeting some great people. I have friends who are gamers, but I also have many friends who are not gamers. I just think that we do have a lot that we can learn from each other.

As for Griffonsec's initial post, I think it is important to game with people whom you like to game with or talk to casually. This does not mean that everyone you game with has to be a friend. It does mean that you should be comfortable with the people at the gaming table. Similarly, each of us may have different gaming styles and not all people are compatable as members of the same group.

 

[William Ronald]

Just a reminder let's keep it respectful; I noticed some slightly heated posts from a few hours ago, and wanted to be sure everything's O.K.

I'm still leaning more toward fusangite's experiences though; maturity as a general thing scales along age lines; there's always unique individuals and they're welcomed, but I don't expect to find them as a general rule.

For Gruf: Listen to Teflon Billy. He is the ENWorld equivalent of the Dalai Lama - he just doesn't know it.

I would like to keep this respectful, as it seems that we are learning a few things here. I have found that maturity tends to go along with age, although there are exceptions. I have seen very mature young people and some immature adults. Mind you, I have seen good players of different ages at the same gaming table work well. I think it is more a matter of compatability and maturity than age.


Teflon Billy does offer good advice. It makes little sense to game with someone whom you don't enjoy having at the gaming table. This applies to DMs as well as players. So, just have some standards which you are comfortable with and let other people at the table know about the standards.

 

[Breakdaddy]

For Gruf: Listen to Teflon Billy. He is the ENWorld equivalent of the Dalai Lama - he just doesn't know it.

TB seems like a fine human being but somehow that thought is mildly frightening to me.

 

[Raloc]

That said, I've gamed with some really cool folks, too -- but they're the exception, not the rule. My modus oprandi now is to basically introduce those in my circle of friends who seem like they'd dig it to pen-and-paper, and usually they take to it like a duck to water. No weirdos required.

I'd have to say that cool people are the exception to the rule full stop. Most people are immature and nonsensical.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I'd have to say that cool people are the exception to the rule full stop...

Good call.

They wouldn't be "cool" if they were common, they'd be (by definition) "average"

 

[Teflon Billy]

TB seems like a fine human being but somehow that thought is mildly frightening to me.

Allright, the preface to that comment has saved you from excommunication

 

[Raloc]

Good call.

They wouldn't be "cool" if they were common, they'd be (by definition) "average"

Indeed. So the object would be to make friends that are the exception to the rule (cool), and force...er...ask them to play D&D with you.

 

[merelycompetent]

Bet you can't post just one.

Well, back on frpgdnd I did post alot... Dangit!!

Back on topic:

I used to wonder why people play/GM when they're not having fun. Isn't that the point of gaming - having fun with people you like (or at least can get along with)? So if you're not having fun, why play?

Then I had the game from HECK. For two years. Then I understood all too well how easy it is to keep going, to keep pumping more and more effort into it far past the point where you should have let the festering, guilt-ridden, pestilential thing die.

On the plus side, I did learn from it. Hopefully, I won't make the same mistakes again. I certainly went back to being very selective in who I game with.

 

[Aikuchi]

Political Correctness is actually a misnomer. The PC movement is really social engineering. Yet I must ask, did you wear a t-shirt or what? I mean, really, I am from Idaho and I don't really see anyone giving you a bad time if you sat at my gaming table. I have gamed with people of all walks of life, backgrounds, colors, flavors, genders, etc and nobody was ridiculed. I tend to think if you were mocked it was due to making an angst ridden comment.

Certainly your own experiences are valid, but I hope you can take mine with some measure of belief when I sae I did not have to wear a t-shirt or 'what' to say who I am.

I did not say all people from any walk of life were giving me a hard time. Just some, much like a room full of people will always have some measure of tension between slef imposed definitions.

As for being angst ridden, I sincerely hope I wasnt. In all fairness, I've had good gaming groups as well that didn't go as badly as those few difficult rpg groups - that should account for something and my persona isn't entirely aversive to gaming groups in general.

As you said, in your gaming table, your players and friends are unliekly to give anyone from my background a bad time. It has been so at some of my own experiences that certain groups that have identified me through skin colour, ethnic background and sexual orientation do tend to give me a hard time while playing. This is practiced either through blissfully ignoring my character actions to making my participation have minimal impact. Perhaps, I had a weaker history in comparison and couldnt make much difference to the current groups campaign or party dynamics but outside the encounters, many remarks uncalled for could have been held in reserve or check for civility's sake.

I'm also a keen fan of MMORPG's, I board (skate) and design (with some programming) and produce some fairly decent novellas. I do not count my gaming experience as a definition to a catch-all behaviour from a person (nor my own behaciour from a single activity), and as such I believe they have a right to their own opinions which includes ethnic slurs as well. Rude and uncalled for as it may be, I had a choice to walk away and stop gaming with them, which I did.

I simply share that I've had my bad experiences.

While I'm glad that you've had positive experiences in you gaming days, and hopefully only more so in the future; I'm not entirely sure you;ve had a tough time just being youself in any setting gaming or not and have someone else's prejudices intercede so personally with you own life regardless of whether you wore a T-shirt to advertise. I certainly carry my own.