I must protest. The drow are not like that!

[the Jester]

Which aggressive hunting spider types? Tarantulas are great pets .

Well, I'm no expert on spiders, but I'm pretty sure there are species that do in fact hunt their prey.

Besides, the emphasis should be on the 'demon' part of their gods, not the 'spider' part- demons surely aren't shy and inoffensive! Lolth prolly looks black widowish because such an appearance inspires fear.

 

[Turjan]

Well, I'm no expert on spiders, but I'm pretty sure there are species that do in fact hunt their prey.

If you truly believe that anyone in this thread thinks that black widows are "shy and reclusive" when it comes to anything of their own size, tell me .

Besides, the emphasis should be on the 'demon' part of their gods, not the 'spider' part- demons surely aren't shy and inoffensive! Lolth prolly looks black widowish because such an appearance inspires fear.

Ah, this is, indeed, a topic for its very own thread. Nobody has written anything about these completely misunderstood demons yet . But your efforts to divorce drow from spiders are quite obviously pursued in vain .

 

[Buttercup]

Sorry to hijack, but I just have to say: Welcome back, Edena! We've missed your unique perspective.

 

[William Ronald]

Hello, Edena:

Welcome back, Edena! Once again, a good use of humor to show how one can take something seen in one light and reinterpret it. A race that patterned its behavior after actual spiders might be a bit more reluctant than Gygax's drow to go all out in combat. Indeed, it might give DMs the idea to have a drow city that follows this pattern -- and is beset by drow following demon worshippers --- particularly a demon goddess whose behavior is a mockery of spider behavior. This could lead to an adventure where the PCs are saving one group of drow from another -- as the drow males are not very effective in defense of the city. Such drow might be willing to accept help from others, and might be very willing to accept receipt of foodstuffs (to supplement the nutrition of their young) and other items from friendly surface dwellers.

Gygax, I believe, used the image of the spider to create Lolth. Spiders do have an alien appearance to humans, and can be frightening to us. (The Shadows on Babylon 5 do have a frightening appearance, and their deeds were even more frightening.) So, I think Gygax was working with pulp imagery. Possibly this thread will inspire some DMs to think of different ways to use drow in their campaigns, and have several diverse drow cultures.

Turjan, Edena is a he, not a she. However, I think he is showing how we can use the natural world to tweak a D&D stereotype. Imagine what a party of adventurers in the Realms would do if they found a drow city that acted in the fashion Edena described, but followed another deity associated with spiders. (Spiders, by the way, are a popular figure in African myth. Also, Athena was sometimes associated with spiders courtesy of her transforming the woman Arachne into a spider.)

DogMoon_2003: The Narn of the Babylon 5 Universe are marsupials, although their appearance is superficially reptilian.

 

[William Ronald]

Sorry to hijack, but I just have to say: Welcome back, Edena! We've missed your unique perspective.

Yes, we have missed you here. For those newer member of the boards, Edena often uses humor to make his points. He also has a great deal of knowledge on the Forgotten Realms.

Another point on the drow culture Edena portrayed --- possibly they might have more skills in hiding and illusionary magic than typical drow.

Unfortunately, most typical Lolth worshippers in the Realms would want to descend on such a culture to enslave them.

 

[Turjan]

Turjan, Edena is a he, not a she.

Oops, I've corrected the post above accordingly .

However, I think he is showing how we can use the natural world to tweak a D&D stereotype. Imagine what a party of adventurers in the Realms would do if they found a drow city that acted in the fashion Edena described, but followed another deity associated with spiders.

I got this part . I just mentioned that size matters in this case, because I wanted to point out to the Jester that I'm aware of the limitations of Edena's spider image, but that I think that specifically discussing these limitations is beside the point of what Edena wrote. I'll salute everything that's a departure from the same old drow image, which has not the slightest bit of mystery left after all these decades. And let's forget about Drizzt .

 

[William Ronald]

Oops, I've corrected the post above accordingly .


I got this part . I just mentioned that size matters in this case, because I wanted to point out to the Jester that I'm aware of the limitations of Edena's spider image, but that I think that specifically discussing these limitations is beside the point of what Edena wrote. I'll salute everything that's a departure from the same old drow image, which has not the slightest bit of mystery left after all these decades. And let's forget about Drizzt .

Ironically, I never encountered the problem that some people have had with the drow. In a former campaign that I was in, two of the players around the time of the original Unearthed Arcana had drow characters. One was a cleric/thief and the other was a cleric. They were renegades who had taken up on worshipping a deity of Nature (which might be a logical thing for people who live underground), essentially Danu the Earth Mother. They were essentially neutral, and more interested in trade than conquest. So, dealing with their families, was more like dealing with a household interested in wealth as opposed to the typical drow. The neutral drow were something of a minority, but we never really got into how drow were often portrayed elsewhere. They could be ruthless and determined foes, but there was more diversity to them than in many of the published products. (I think one of the problems with how drow have developed is that it was assumed that all drow automatically followed Lolth. The Realms have livened this up a bit with different sects, but I think that some of the wonder and mystery of the drow is gone. So, when one myth lacks meaning, create a new one.)

 

[Turjan]

Ironically, I never encountered the problem that some people have had with the drow.

It's not directly a problem. Drow, being the intelligent stealthy foe (with orcs being the brutish gory foe), are one of the two staples of evil humanoid that never get old. Both are always good for adventures (even if they might be called differently, like illithids or ogres). It's just the problem that they feel so terribly familiar. Unfortunately, the theme of the drow renegade met the same destiny. Everybody knows the script. That's why an alternative is nice .

 

[Lela]

My family is known for it's etimology hobbies and my brothers and uncles have literally thousands of insects and arachneds pinned in boxes and stored in various basements. Personally, I never fealt all that drawn to it.

One thing we've done more than a few times is catch a Black Widow and drop it in some form of cage. We fed it some flies, crickets, and other such things. After it had a good web built up (sometimes) we drop in a praying mantis and watch the show.

The spiders, every single time, won easily. It didn't matter if they had a web, if we'd forgotten to feed them for a week, or if they were missing a leg or two. They kicked trash. And got very fat doing it.

Seems protecting themselves isn't a problem.


I like this idea, Edena. I think I'm going to keep it in my back pocket for something fun.

 

[Ovinomancer]

You know, I think it would be cool if Drow were MARSUPIALS. I mean seriously, how many races do we have that are like that? Dnd needs more marsupials.

Because they're fast?