I never realized how Darkvision negates Hide

[Steverooo]

The Ranger and Rogue have both been weakened by 3.5's Hide rules. It used to be that you could Hide by dressing to blend in, moving only when unobserved, and "fooling the eye" when you were being observed. Now, camouflage is a 13th level ability, and only the Ranger can have it! In a typical dungeon, with straight 10' corridors, the Rogue can no longer sneak ahead, hiding, and backstab at need!

And STILL magical Invisibility is too good... DC:20 to Spot invisibles, and even then, you don't know what you saw (Huh?), or where it was! (So HOW did you "Spot" them, again?)

The effects of this is that, for two Perceptive/Stealthy characters with equal stats and maxed out skills, of the same level, the Perceptive PC will be unable to detect the Invisible PC until at least... 17th level (excluding magic items). That seems unfair, to me. Even with the Alertness Feat and Eyes of the Eagle, you have to be 10th level to have a chance. And Blind-fight? Fuhgeddabouddit! It only affects your miss chance, once you know where the Invisible is.

10th-level Rogue with 14 WIS and Spot Maxed out: +15
10th-level Rogue with 14 DEX and Hide maxed out: +15

DC to spot static hider: 55 + 1D20
DC to discern location of static hider: 75 + 1D20

DC to spot hider moving half-speed: 35 + 1D20
DC to discern location: 55 + 1D20

Spotter's maximum possible roll, unaided: 35
Spotter's maximum possible roll with +5 WIS bonus item, Eyes of the Eagle, Alertness and Skill Focus: Spot Feats: 50

Even if the Hider rolls a 1, the unaided spotter who rolls a 20 can never even notice that the hider is there, and even an incredibly-gifted and magically-aided one cannot discern his location!

Nope, +20 to Hide AND having to beat the DC by 20+ is just TOO outta-whack Overkill! Beating the +20 DC should give you the exact location!...

Shucks, in 1e, invisible opponents could be attacked at a mere -4!

 

[Kershek]

Does the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight ability work against someone with darkvision?

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

What about blind-sight?

If you are using blind-sight, you still get your sneak attacks, right?

After hearing about the concealment, I was wondering if blind-sight would negate the problems of attacking a creature in darkness/shadow.

Thanks for any info.

Taren Nighteyes

 

[Gwydion The Quick]

Nope, Hide in plain sight does not work against darkvision.

In PHB 3,5 in Adventuring Chapter (i can't recall the exact page) it says: "You cannot hide 60-ft of a character with darkvision"

And Hide in plain sight says "You can hide anywhere near 10-ft reach of a shadow"

So, the target-with-darkvision does not see any shadow in his/her 60-ft that means a shadowdancer (or anybody with hide in plain sight) can approach only 50-ft near of the target not close enought to score a sneak attack (max. range is 30-ft)

Then What hide in plain sight actually does in 3,5? with every abbretions, outsider, monstrous humanoid has innate darkvision.

Yes, I agree to "Steverooo" for rogue and ranger's weakining on 3,5. But the rogue suffers greater than the ranger. Ranger can shoot at his/her enemies from hundereds of feets and still do not lose favored enemy bonus to dmg but the rogue loses sneak attack against most of the enemies (thanks to darkvision and low-light vision) Without using hit-and-run tactics with sneak attack a rouge can be only a supporting class in combat situations.

 

[Walter_J]

Yeah, I really didn't like 3.5's Hide rules and camouflage being a 13th level abiltily just cracked me up. So I worked out some Hide modifiers due to concealment/cover and made Camouflage a feat. And dont' even get me started on the encounter ranges. I mean, c'mon, you could be walking through the woods and suddenly encounter a group of hill giants 20' away regardless of your Spot and Listen skills? I reworked that stuff too. If your interested, you can check out a demo of the book I published this info in (and a lot more) at www.althoria.com

The Ranger and Rogue have both been weakened by 3.5's Hide rules. It used to be that you could Hide by dressing to blend in, moving only when unobserved, and "fooling the eye" when you were being observed. Now, camouflage is a 13th level ability, and only the Ranger can have it! In a typical dungeon, with straight 10' corridors, the Rogue can no longer sneak ahead, hiding, and backstab at need!

And STILL magical Invisibility is too good... DC:20 to Spot invisibles, and even then, you don't know what you saw (Huh?), or where it was! (So HOW did you "Spot" them, again?)

The effects of this is that, for two Perceptive/Stealthy characters with equal stats and maxed out skills, of the same level, the Perceptive PC will be unable to detect the Invisible PC until at least... 17th level (excluding magic items). That seems unfair, to me. Even with the Alertness Feat and Eyes of the Eagle, you have to be 10th level to have a chance. And Blind-fight? Fuhgeddabouddit! It only affects your miss chance, once you know where the Invisible is.

10th-level Rogue with 14 WIS and Spot Maxed out: +15
10th-level Rogue with 14 DEX and Hide maxed out: +15

DC to spot static hider: 55 + 1D20
DC to discern location of static hider: 75 + 1D20

DC to spot hider moving half-speed: 35 + 1D20
DC to discern location: 55 + 1D20

Spotter's maximum possible roll, unaided: 35
Spotter's maximum possible roll with +5 WIS bonus item, Eyes of the Eagle, Alertness and Skill Focus: Spot Feats: 50

Even if the Hider rolls a 1, the unaided spotter who rolls a 20 can never even notice that the hider is there, and even an incredibly-gifted and magically-aided one cannot discern his location!

Nope, +20 to Hide AND having to beat the DC by 20+ is just TOO outta-whack Overkill! Beating the +20 DC should give you the exact location!...

Shucks, in 1e, invisible opponents could be attacked at a mere -4!

 

[Ferret]

I say a spell that turned you 2d, that'd have to help

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

Does anyone know the answer to the blind sight quest I posted above?

Just want to make sure my thinking is correct....

Thanks,

Taren Nighteyes

 

[Saeviomagy]

Is it really that silly to think that someone standing in the open in a bare, well-lit corridor cannot hide?? Because that's what standing in a bare, darkened corridor in front of something with darkvision equates to.

My suggestion - what on earth does your dungeon have totally clean, straight, well-repaired corridors with monsters at the end of them for if you want the rogue to scout them??

 

[Steverooo]

Re: What about blind-sight?

If you are using blind-sight, you still get your sneak attacks, right?

The rules simply do not say, therefore, it is up to the GM. The Sneak Attack description (bottom left-hand column of PHB:50) does say: "The rogue must be able to see the target wellenough to pick out a vital spot..." If the GM takes "see" literally, then no. If they interpret that as "sense", instead, then maybe.

As for me, I find the notion that a thief (rogue) should be able to Hide in shadows, but not be able to sneak attack there, ridiculous.

 

[Steverooo]

If your interested, you can check out a demo of the book I published this info in (and a lot more) at www.althoria.com

Hey, Walter! Is that 3e, or 3.5? (If 3e, will there be an update?)