I think the D&D line needs a "Bridge" product

Dragongirl said:
Not sure I care for how a number of posts in this thread seem to be saying that women are incapable of understanding the full rules of D&D. If you really want women to take more interest tell them more of the roleplaying instead of the fighting and monsters.


My wife would have no problem understanding the rules, however, she is a full-time student and just doesn't have the time. Maybe she will someday, but she is more interested in the "roleplay" of the game and is content to learn the rules as she goes.

Sorry if my post seemed to imply otherwise.
 

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I was looking for such a product for my nephew for christmas. He has never played or even heard of D&D. I do not live near him or I'd introduce him to it personally. I looked at both the D&D intro game and the LOTR RPG. Both were not what I would want. If I were to do it I'd make a "basic" set as discussed above but make it so one could move into the PHB, the DMG and MM.
 

Sixchan said:
It has been difficult getting new people into the rules, so I've been doing my best to simplify them myself. A product that did this for me would be GREAT.

Huh? IME, it is quite easy if one starts with the "Just tell me what you want to do and I tell you what to roll"-approach, and builds up from there. Few people don't understand the basics after a couple sessions.
 

Yeah, well you obviously have people who can grasp rules a lot faster than my gamers can. Add to that the fact that I've only got them all together at once, once (at least one person always cancels). One person who had supposedly read both the PHB and DMG didn't know that Lawful Good characters couldn't take the assassin PrC (nor did he understand that you can't take PrCs at 1st level), and that you're not supposed to get things like +5 vorpal swords when you're level one (god, I almost died laughing reading his background). And he said he had read the books!:rolleyes:
 

Y'know, I don't know much about marketing, but is there any reason why WoTC cannot simply ASK it's target audience if there will be a market for that product? Yeah, a survey will cost a bit of money, but I think it'll be cheaper than running off 100,000 copies of something and having them languish at at a factory outlet mall or something.

BTW, I was wary of suggesting that the average woman couldn't deal with gaming, because that's certainly not what I believe. That's why I said "significant other", because I've heard of a number of cases where the female is the avid gamer, but the guy couldn't hang with it.
 

Hm... Do you have a large group? I usually play in a group of 2 to 3 players and 1 DM - just right to give everyone plenty of screentime, and makes scheduling a lot easier, as well as introducing new people to the rules. I usually build a PC, especially the background, with the new player, that way I can customize it to better fit in my campaign.
 

JeffB said:


4) Who is John Wick?

Henry pretty much gave everything you need to know about Wick except that he went on a RPG.net rant when D20 emerged saying, in essence, "D20 600 pages of rules! RULES?! What the Hell". Your wife's reaction just jolted my memory of that, Jeff. :)

He then said he was going to set the gaming community on their ear with his scenario, "What's that Smell". It ended up getting decent reviews before fading into obscurity. A good scenario that didn't nearly live up to Wick's hype.
 

Here's the problem with doing a survery...

The target audience for a "basic" set is the novice user that most likely has never played D&D. How do you survey those people when you don't know who they are?

A lot of folks have made suggestions about what should be included in a basic set. Not that it's worth anything, but here's what I think...

  • I don't think the basic set should go beyond 7th level.
  • There should be references that point to the core books (PHB, DMG, MM) "if you want to add more detail and realism to your game..."
  • should include the basics of running a scenario. Should include a short list of scenario ideas (maybe 10 one paragraph ideas). One full-blown scenario should be included (this scenario should have some scripting so the DM can basically read some of the dialogue right from the scenario).
  • should be marketed like any other boxed game set. In other words, I should be able to walk into Toys R Us and find it next to Monopoly and Sorry. Ages 11 and up. ;)
 

IMHO it would have to be sold as a boxed set. Boxed sets are more expensive to make, but you can sell them to chain toy stores - they look like your average boardgame and more people can find it accidentally. You can also include the dice - another draw for newbies. Plus a character sheet, a catalog for more, etc.

Keep the writing simple, but not simplistic. Don't talk down to the customer - kids hate this and they will hate the game if they aren't treated with respect. All rules should have a "For example" section demonstrating their use. Withouth those damned iconics, if possible. ;)

A sample module is a must. This should be a mini-campaign versus something like The Sunless Citadel. That was good, but something more like Keep on the Borderlands would be cooler - maybe even something even more "dispersed". A small base of operations, several small adventuring areas (remember, beginning characters can't handle too much at first) and something bigger for "the grand finale". For example, you have the village of Mainbaas in a secluded valley, and places like "the goblin tower", "the ruined remains of Fallgor's summer palace", "the abandoned mines of rat-men" and finally the dreaded Temple of Terrible Terrors. Basically, the module must be non-stop fun for at least three sessions, including possibilities for combat, interaction with locals and so on.

The set should progress to at least level 5. The adventure game, AFAIK, doesn't allow character advancement. This is not good. Leveling is one of those alluring things in this game. Level 5 is good. You get the best spells of the D&D experience - Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Dispel Magic and Fly. Your character can take some punishment, but he will still not be invincible. Level 5 is where most good fantasy novels are set at.

No need to cram everything into the set. Prestige classes are a NO-NO. Magic items should be kept to about 20-30, limited to the basic types like healing potions, +2 swords and wands of lightning bolts. Include about 20-30 common monsters - some undead, some orc types, some detailed NPCs (guards and bandits and evil clerics) and a dragon or two.

And include pointers to the "advanced" game - this was done pretty well in the "Survival Guide" of the first PHB printing. The boxed set should be used to whet those apetites, all the while offering a glimpse into an even more fabulous world of adventure... That is, the core books. :D



Come on, there must be a d20 company willing to do this. :)
 

Sixchan said:
Yeah, well you obviously have people who can grasp rules a lot faster than my gamers can.

Sheesh! Tell me about it! (: I was at a con and, as a AD&D grognard, all that feats, skills, and stuff was No Fun to learn from a book. (Gee, thanks for helping me create my character, RPGA!) I then played an "intro" D&D game in the kid's room (I was helping, lol) and creating characters was a bear. The kids weren't paying enough attention and the adults were all confused. (:

"You cannot cast spells while adjacent to an opponent."
-- Best simplified rule ever!


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

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