OGL I think they got what they wanted


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Enrahim2

Adventurer
They still have DMs Guild which does exactly what they want without the OGL - full control over content, a very high cut, locking products into their platform. Basically a textbook predatory contract, but it seems to attract quite a high number of creators who just want to produce things for their favourite settings (just like all those other DTRPG community programmes).
Well, they still have a "OGL" as well, even if they do what yhey try to do with it. The big question us if anyone will ever create anything of quality under these anymore.

I have not seen the dmGuild terms, as even getting to the official source of the text seem to require giving wizards more information about myself than I am happy with at this point. But from the description it seem like it is modelled after the one sided type of license agreements commonly acompanying consumer software. The problem is that what make such agreements work in the software space is trust and low stakes.

I think it would be highly naieve of Wizards to think that dmGuild creators do not see this OGL bullying and not start thinking what sort of legal nastyness wizards might try to pull on them. "Just because they can". For anyone actually having stakes to lose, this should be disqualifying, even if they thought the terms was OK under the assumption wizard was not a pharia, willing to weapons even the smallest of legal ambiguities.

Unless we see serious trust building actions by Wizards in the near future I predict the only quality products being released at dmguild in the future will be things already in the pipeline. After that it will just be a platform for half baked fan fiction.
 

Enrahim2

Adventurer
The initial wave seems to be splitting for Pathfinder 2E. I hope that works out for people. The system is far too crunchy for my tastes.
I have also seen people stream toward cypher and sawage worlds. I would say cypher is less crunchy than 5ed, while swade seem similarly crunchy. So there seem to be a default destination for any taste in crunch.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
I have also seen people stream toward cypher and sawage worlds. I would say cypher is less crunchy than 5ed, while swade seem similarly crunchy. So there seem to be a default destination for any taste in crunch.
My preferred level of crunch is somewhere in the 5 pages or less range.

Something like: pick 5 traits; you can take 3 hits before dropping; roll opposed 2d6 when necessary, higher roll wins; pick 3 significant items; break an item to avoid a hit; when a trait, an item, or circumstances would make a task easier, roll 3d6 and keep the highest two.

That’s it. Anything more is asking for trouble.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
The market is different, but not in the way WotC want it to be.

And the 3D VTT thing is a huge gamble. They're putting tens of millions into it, and projects like that fail all the time, or equally often, go wildly over-budget and over-time (pretty much the same thing). What is intended to be a two year project could easily end either getting cut off before it has a truly usable product, or taking, say, five years instead of two, at which point the cost would be about $175m (!!!).

We could very easily see WotC or the D&D IP actually getting sold off in attempt to recoup losses if the 3D VTT is anything but an astonishing success.

I'm sorry, but I'm very skeptical that WotC's data is proving useful to them, given their decision-making.

The idea that you intentionally drag yourself through the mud in the court of public opinion is absolutely laughable conspiracy-theory bollocks.
The VTT is definitely a huge gamble, but if they pull it off in a way that lowers the barrier to entry to DM a game, they'll remove the largest blocker to getting new players, finding a DM to run the game.

And I don't believe they intentionally dragged themselves through the mud, I'm saying that they weren't concerned with it if it happened. If the goal is to either get 3PPs under contract with them or to have them leave the D&D ecosystem, they believed that they were in a win-win with their strategy.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
This is not a Xanatos Gambit.

We've heard from people inside Wizards about the executives scrambling and panicking. About the anger and disgust, the real-time adjusting of their public response, everything.

This isn't what they wanted. Don't give them that credit.
 

mamba

Hero
This isn't what they wanted. Don't give them that credit.
Not what the D&D creators wanted, I do not think it is far off the mark of whoever wanted to revoke 1.0a wants however. Certainly within an acceptable range of the target

I do not think this is a Xanatos Gambit, because I think this is actually a Kobayashi Maru, long term. The OGL 1.0a ensured they would stay the center of the universe forever, as everyone worked to reinforce that position. Now they are there because of inertia, nothing else, while strengthening the actual competition.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
They certainly could not have expected the massive blowback.

I disagree on this one point. Anyone who understood the gaming community could have told them about what would happen. It is hard to interpret the original timeline of a week to respond to the offered license as other than trying to make it into a "done deal", rather than something we could respond to.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I disagree on this one point. Anyone who understood the gaming community could have told them about what would happen. It is hard to interpret the original timeline of a week to respond to the offered license as other than trying to make it into a "done deal", rather than something we could respond to.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.


Anyway, I think that the reaction of Hasbro shows that they did not expect the massive blowback. Some pushback? Sure. But not this.
 

The VTT is definitely a huge gamble, but if they pull it off in a way that lowers the barrier to entry to DM a game, they'll remove the largest blocker to getting new players, finding a DM to run the game.
If they manage to make DMing using a VTT easier than DMing in real life, that would be a miracle, so that is incredibly unlikely, and I doubt it's even a goal for them.

More likely they want to make it flashier and more monetized than DMing IRL.
And I don't believe they intentionally dragged themselves through the mud, I'm saying that they weren't concerned with it if it happened.
No.

That's definitely not the case either. They wouldn't have gone silent and backpedalled the way they did if they "weren't concerned". You're just making up retcon motivations at this point. And not plausible ones even.
 

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