D&D (2024) I think we are on the cusp of a sea change.

[Minigiant]

Probably some of the popular newer races would have a larger role in the world lore, with some of the less popular old races still present, but on the margins.

Nah.

A true 2021 setting would bring the new race, old races, and humans to equality of importance. And their would be good, evil, and nuetral factions of each.

Basically take every PHB race plus orcs and goblins and make 3-5 countries/factions/cults for each. Then take some of the other races like warforged and leonin and make them into nations and factions as well.

It would look like Total War Warhammer's Mortal Empire's Map.
Humans,Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Lizardmen, Warforged, Halflings, Dragonborn. Tiefling, Goblins, Orges, Tabaxi, etc all over the place.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What like Waterdeep? Built on a massive magical dungeon, surrounded by a mythal, ruled by an archmage chosen of the goddess of magic. Policed by a wizards guild, defended my magic walking statues… etc etc.

Waterdeep is a pretty good example for presentation, I guess.

You can spin that stuff up or down. In 2E it was spun down pretty hard, for sure. Waterdeep was very much presented as a normal city with this stuff largely "in the shadows".

Waterdeep has a separate problem though, in that, last I checked, it was ruled by oppressive jerks who don't want to let anyone do anything, and is basically pretty unfun and intentionally hostile to adventurers, well, adventuring. But maybe that changed in 5E presentations? That was a pretty common problem in a lot of 2E and 3E FR approaches - "We've made this cool place, you could be adventurers based here! Oh btw they hate adventurers and there are taxes and mandatory charters and loads of pushy cops/quasi-cops who want to get all up in your business! Enjoy!".

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Nah.

A true 2021 setting would bring the new race, old races, and humans to equality of importance. And their would be good, evil, and nuetral factions of each.

Basically take every PHB race plus orcs and goblins and make 3-5 countries/factions/cults for each. Then take some of the other races like warforged and leonin and make them into nations and factions as well.

It would look like Total War Warhammer's Mortal Empire's Map.

I really strongly disagree.

The massive racial separatism you're describing is absolutely the opposite of a 2021 setting.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

4) Level of magic. With 1980s settings, there is often powerful magic that has happened or that is linked to an artifact or whatever, but things tend to be fairly or extremely low-magic generally, and even when Eberron came along in 2004 some people groused about it being "too magical". I don't think the mass market would agree now. I think, being raised on all sorts of very high-fantasy video games, that people want to see stuff that's more magical. And yeah, again this is a long-term trend. Spelljammer and Planescape I already mentioned. I feel like presentation can modify this but only so much.

Exalted was quite popular when it was published, very high magic over the top and magitech influence. I think it predates Eberron but I really can't remember. Late 1990s?

The massive racial separatism you're describing is absolutely the opposite of a 2021 setting.

Same here. Cities have been cosmopolitan to the point of stretching suspension of disbelief since 3e, it's not something new, even if it was limited to a subset of races (generally the good aligned, eg Waterdeep : humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, half-elves, gnomes and half-orcs).

I see what you're describing as a 2001 setting, not a 2021 setting.

The 1980s in fantasy settings was utterly dominated by "basically an Earth society but renamed and with some tweaks"

I wasn't there in the 1980s anymore than I was there when Isildur... sorry. But if anything, I feel the current settings are more and more "Earth society", with values imported wholesales, including very recent ideals (like due process, individualism, nations yet tolerance...) into fantasy world without any explanation on how those ideas came into being. How could it be "even more Earthy" in the 80s?

 

[Minigiant]

I really strongly disagree.

The massive racial separatism you're describing is absolutely the opposite of a 2021 setting.

There would be countries and cities with multiple races in them. A bunch of cosmopolitan cities and countries.

But having a home or ethnic country where your PC came from that isn't marginalized as a far away place would be a big thing.

The 2021 player wants to say his Tabaxi go to New Port City or Bondon then tell the bartender he is from Catistan not Felinia and have everyone know the difference.

 

[Oofta]

There would be countries and cities with multiple races in them. A bunch of cosmopolitan cities and countries.

But having a home or ethnic country where your PC came from that isn't marginalized as a far away place would be a big thing.

The 2021 player wants to say his Tabaxi go to New Port City or Bondon then tell the bartender he is from Catistan not Felinia and have everyone know the difference.

You're assuming people actually read the lore of a setting. If you're talking about NPCs, not players, you're assuming people have broad knowledge of the world which even in today's day and age is sadly lacking.

I do think you could have more interesting factions and forces in a specific campaign world that for the most part ignores race. I do that to a certain degree in my own campaign world, but honestly I have a hard time getting people to read a page of lore so it's not worth the effort most of the time. So most of my factions are relatively local and campaign specific.

 

[Minigiant]

You're assuming people actually read the lore of a setting. If you're talking about NPCs, not players, you're assuming people have broad knowledge of the world which even in today's day and age is sadly lacking.

I do think you could have more interesting factions and forces in a specific campaign world that for the most part ignores race. I do that to a certain degree in my own campaign world, but honestly I have a hard time getting people to read a page of lore so it's not worth the effort most of the time. So most of my factions are relatively local and campaign specific.

It's not about the lore.

Catistan is House Cat people. Felinia is Wild Cat people.

The point is the 2021 gamer wants to have the same feeling of saying "My sniper is from Brazil" to the French driver, the Texan gunslingers, the Nigerian hacker, and the assassin from Hong Kong the in a modern RPG. So Brazil has to exist and be different from Columbia.

 

[Staffan]

Exalted was quite popular when it was published, very high magic over the top and magitech influence. I think it predates Eberron but I really can't remember. Late 1990s?

Early 00s. I remember White Wolf running an advertisement campaign where you could exchange your 3e PHB for an Exalted book, and that would make little sense after the release of 3.5.

 

[Oofta]

It's not about the lore.

Catistan is House Cat people. Felinia is Wild Cat people.

The point is the 2021 gamer wants to have the same feeling of saying "My sniper is from Brazil" to the French driver, the Texan gunslingers, the Nigerian hacker, and the assassin from Hong Kong the in a modern RPG. So Brazil has to exist and be different from Columbia.

As much as you and I may enjoy this kind of in depth lore, a lot of people simply don't care. Most people wouldn't be able to point out Columbia or Brazil on a map much less have any clue that the cultures are different. For that matter if I'm being honest while I know where the locations you listed are, I wouldn't know enough about the cultures to really distinguish them.

I agree that factions that are organized regardless of race can work and add depth to a specific campaign world. I'm just not sure it will have broad enough appeal to justify the effort. It would require a brand new setting and a lot of careful checking for stereotypes, even then I can see it being a potential landmine no matter how well done it is.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I wasn't there in the 1980s anymore than I was there when Isildur... sorry. But if anything, I feel the current settings are more and more "Earth society", with values imported wholesales, including very recent ideals (like due process, individualism, nations yet tolerance...) into fantasy world without any explanation on how those ideas came into being. How could it be "even more Earthy" in the 80s?

Huh? No that's not at all what I mean. This was a really common thing.

I'm saying that in those settings many or even most of the nations are simply imported versions of historical Earth societies renamed a bit, sometimes made a non-human race, and often leaning into some stereotypes or anachronism. A particularly spectacular example you might be aware of is the Moonshae Isles in the FR (originally intended to be it's own setting), which is basically a horrific mish-mash of various "Celtic" cultures ("The Ffolk" will never stop being funny) and also some "Vikings". It was just really lazy and a repeated pattern. If you never saw it because you've not played those settings, well, maybe that why you're confused about what I was saying, also you're lucky lol.

I see what you're describing as a 2001 setting, not a 2021 setting.

Is the text where in like, four different posts, I've said "Most of these changes happened in the 1990s", like not showing up for people or something? That's not even sarcasm, I'm genuinely confused at this point. I've said it a bunch of times.