ICv2 Interview: Greg Leeds on the Game Market and Wizard of the Coast

[Plaguescarred]

Greg Leeds on the Game Market and Wizard of the Coast
ICv2 Interview
By ICv2

ICv2 caught up with Wizards of the Coast CEO Greg Leeds for our annual interview (for last year’s, see "Greg Leeds on the Market, Retailers, 'D&D,' and Licensing"), to discuss the state of the industry and what’s happening at the company. He discussed the market and the company’s plans for Dungeons and Dragons, Kaijudo, and Magic: The Gathering.

Talk about this article here.

 

[pemerton]

I thought this was interesting:

We recently did an interview about The Sundering and how it’s going to be playable with 3.5, 4 or Next rules and your folks made the comment that they’re disengaging the narrative from the rules so you can play however you want all around the same narrative (see "Exclusive Interview on The Sundering"). Can you talk more about that interesting strategy?

The idea is that we don’t want any of our audience split based on the rules they’re familiar with and like to play. We want to offer an opportunity for whatever your rules choice is so you can enjoy the narrative that’s coming up and the characters in the story lines that will excite the fan base in the future.

Is that the strategy going forward?

Yes, absolutely. That’ll be a strategy you’ll see for years to come.

. . .

The second thing I’m excited about is the rejuvenation of Dungeons & Dragons with the digital games that we have coming out and the new philosophy we have on our RPG rule sets which I think will pay huge dividends for Wizards of the Coast and for the industry, but most importantly for all those current and future D&D fans.​

Also this, about growing the gaming market:

One of the surprises to us is that the market seems to have been able to absorb two new successful CCG launches, but in recent years there were a lot of CCGs launches that crashed and burned in a year or less. What does that tell you about the market?

What it tells me is what I’ve believed, which is that the hobby gaming industry competes in the general entertainment industry. When you think of that, it means that we are only capturing a small percentage of the total entertainment leisure time and money that our potential consumers have. So our opportunity in the industry is to build way beyond where we are today.

It’s not about trading share among the industry players or how many TCGs can exist. We think more and more TCGs can exist because there is so much time and money being spent on things outside of our industry that could be moved over if the fans get the experiences they deserve. That’s what we’re doing at Wizards of the Coast; that’s what other companies are doing; so I think there’s lots of room in the market for more TCGs and other hobby game experiences.

. . .

Our primary strategy on Magic: The Gathering, like the rest of our business, is to create great in-store experiences that rival any other type of entertainment our fans could have outside of the store.​

They are seeing hobby gaming as entertainment, not lifestyle. That has implications for the design of D&D, relating for instance to the comments Mearls was making last year (or earlier this year?) about 1-hour adventures.

There's also some amusing banter about the D&D film rights.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I agree. Also Interesting to hear WotC (first declararion i think?) about their D&D movie (with Universals and not Salomon's Warner Bros one) i hope things settle quickly!

Fiction, paper games, online games, and comics are all places where this narrative is expressed, is that everything?
If you include in paper games board games in a digital tablet format and in a paper format, yes. And we continue to work with our Los Angeles connections on the potential for a film. Unfortunately I can’t announce anything at this time but we are looking for all venues of telling our story.

Do you think a D&D movie will get made?
Yes, I do.

By whom?
(Laughter) I can’t answer that because we haven’t made enough progress to be able to guess on that.

There’s litigation surrounding the property, isn’t there?
There’s not litigation involving us directly. There are some disputes over the titles but we’re making good progress in that area and I think that will be resolved shortly. The D&D brand and the stories within the brand are just too rich and engaging to not have a film made one day.

 

[JeffB]

The "systemless" adventure material seems promising.

Assuming it is actually good material.

I do not mind conversions if the module is worth it, but rarely is a WOTC module worth it.

 

[Li Shenron]

I am quite positive about system-free adventures, it actually feels quite natural that story, characters, locations, etc. are system-free.

Eventually however, people will also want to buy the encounters within, and I am not so sure these can be system-free. The adventure could easily say that in scene #4 the PCs will face an ogre an its goblins servants, but many gaming groups will need stats or at least specific details to make sure that in their system the encounter is properly challenging. Good DMs can figure it out but it takes time anyway.

Well, let's see how they pull it off, but certainly I would like being able to buy adventures or campaign settings that are not bound to a single edition.

They are seeing hobby gaming as entertainment, not lifestyle.

I hope so I've always seen it simply as a game, it's even a bit scary for me to think someone considers it a "lifestyle".

 

[darjr]

The "systemless" adventure material seems promising.

Assuming it is actually good material.

I do not mind conversions if the module is worth it, but rarely is a WOTC module worth it.

The latest Sundering encounters adventure, available to everyone, seems very good. It is the first one I know of that is triple statted.

 

[Wicht]

I'm not sure that selling Dungeons and Dragons as "entertainment" instead of "hobby" (I think hobby is a better word than "lifestyle." Not very many people actually make a life around the game, but it most certainly is an extensive hobby) is going to work out quite the same as with Magic. There is far more prep time for RPGs before you ever get to that one or two hour entertainment zone. Not to mention, in my experience, RPGs always work best with 3+ hour blocks of time. I have never had a satisfying 1-2 hour RPG session, and not for trying.

I would love to see them, in releasing stats for their systemless adventure, biting the bullet and releasing some under the OGL for 3e or even Pathfinder. It would be a huge mea culpa but I think it would pay them dividends. I would most certainly plop down money for a decent adventure from WotC if it was OGL. Not too interested in just having an adventure outline where I have to fill in all the blanks myself.

 

[Echohawk]

I would love to see them, in releasing stats for their systemless adventure, biting the bullet and releasing some under the OGL for 3e or even Pathfinder. It would be a huge mea culpa but I think it would pay them dividends. I would most certainly plop down money for a decent adventure from WotC if it was OGL. Not too interested in just having an adventure outline where I have to fill in all the blanks myself.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are suggesting here. Do you mean:

1. WotC should release 3.5 stats for their systemless adventure
or
2. WotC should release adventures under the OGL.

If the former, then they are already doing that -- you can download files containing 3.5e, 4e and Next stats for Murder in Baldur's Gate from the product page.

If the latter, then I am confused -- as I understand it, it wouldn't make much sense to release a systemless adventure under the OGL, since it is by definition systemless. That means it wouldn't have any Open Gaming Content, but would be exclusively Product Identity (both terms as defined under the OGL), and that would make it completely pointless to release under the OGL.

 

[Wicht]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are suggesting here. Do you mean:

1. WotC should release 3.5 stats for their systemless adventure
or
2. WotC should release adventures under the OGL.

If the former, then they are already doing that -- you can download files containing 3.5e, 4e and Next stats for Murder in Baldur's Gate from the product page.

If the latter, then I am confused -- as I understand it, it wouldn't make much sense to release a systemless adventure under the OGL, since it is by definition systemless. That means it wouldn't have any Open Gaming Content, but would be exclusively Product Identity (both terms as defined under the OGL), and that would make it completely pointless to release under the OGL.

The latter, sort of. When releasing the 3.5 stats I would love for them to release them under the OGL, which I highly suspect they did not do. WotC, as the owners of the OGL have never had to comply with it when doing their 3.x material. But if they did they would go a long way towards winning me back, if even a little.

While for many, it doesn't really matter whether or not the stats are OGL, for me it does, a lot. The usefulness of those stats is more than tripled by that one courtesy.

 

[Jester David]

I believe the comment on Neverwinter misinformed. He says 2 million people downloaded but what Cryptic said was there were 2 million accounts made.
As the game is free and there's a cap on characters and bank slots that you need real money to increase, it's easier to make an alt account to use as a mule. So the number of players is actually far less.