I'd like to be excited, but...

I'll miss some of my favorite old material, but...

1) Some of my favorite material was essentially a series of patches on flawed basic rules. Every fighter/mage hybrid class out there was a patch on the fact that Fighter/Wizard was a crappy choice. If they fix the underlying problem, I won't need that material.
2) Some of my favorite material seems to have become the base for the standard material in 4th Ed. For example, Tome of Battle.
3) My favorite book, Heroes of Battle, is largely still valid. The material for players will be out of date, but the advice for DMs will be valid in 4th Ed, 5th Ed, 6th Ed, heck, even in games from other companies.
 

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DragonLancer said:
Give it a couple years from the release and you'll be on 4.5 - if I was a gambling man I'd put money on it.

Scott Rouse said there would be no 4.5, so you can pretty much count on there being a 4.5 in about 3.5 years.
 

Well much like the first poster I'm just not that excited, no hate for those that are but no excitement here. I'm taking a very much wait and see stance, and thats only because of the electronic tools being talked about. However the fact that a business thats been planning this announcement for 2 years could not have its servers ready for the expected onslaught of traffic after a 24 hour count down, is just plain sad. As well it does not bode well for their ability to pull off the DI successfully.

The few rules changes I have heard are not encouraging. Now I have not read everything but the removing Grapple unless they have some replacement mechanic for it. Grapple is a great option for characters and monsters.

Also while I think the magic item creation could use some revamp, the little thats been said/hinted at sounds like it could lead to problems for games where players use characters in different DM's games.


Lastly its going to be a long time before I take any thing Mr. Rouse has to say seriously. While I understand he business aspect, I think he's really pushed it.

JD
 

Also agreeing with the first poster. This is about the least interesting thing that could have come out of GenCon.

At first I was annoyed that no new 3E stuff would be coming out, which made me very anti 4E but the more I thought about it the more I realized I just didn't care.

And from what previews I've scene they seem to be "fixing" things I hadn't even considered as being problems (like races only giving a bonus at first).
 

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
Well, if it means anything, Scott Rouse made a post on the WotC forums directly saying there will never be a 4.5e.

Take that as you will, though.

Right, so that means there will be a 4.5E. Good to know. :D
 

EricNoah said:
I hear you. It's not good news for everyone. For some it's "interesting but irrelevant to my situation." I find it easy to be happy for those who are excited about it because I remember how excited I was over 3rd edition, even if I'm not necessarily planning on switching.

Bingo. I've said it before, getting there will be all of the fun for me. Vicarious excitement, if you will. :D
 

Yeah, I dunno. I don't think I'll be able to afford any books when 4e comes out, as I'll be just finishing up a semester, and working to pay off the next one.

I haven't been following the HUGE amount of 4e threads running right now, so I'm not sure what to be excited about. If the "new campaign setting every year" is true, though, I'll be excited - Dark Sun 4E would be pretty sweet. :)

But, yeah, not exactly thrilled with it all right now. Maybe that's just because I'm not relishing the thought of all my 3e stuff becoming obsolete.
 

s.j. bagley said:
erm, okay.
i never said i wouldn't buy or support a 4.5 so your snarkiness is unwarranted.
i simply said that, whatever and whenever the next edition may be that they simply call it 'fifth edition.'

Um... You're reading me wrong. There was no snarkiness involved. I'm just stating my opinion.
 

Oh I'm very excited about what I see.

After grappling with 3.5 for about a year I found True20 and fell for its streamlined nature. Less prep time for me, combined skills, magic-as-featlike powers, etc. While I had no plans to convince my current 3.5 group to move over to True20, 4th Ed will be a happy medium.

I'm also in the boat of wanting more game time. Last week's thread about Virtual Tabletop RPGs helped me realize this will be the way to go for at least SOME of my play time. Nothing will replace the fun of F2F, but VT can help me get a little more gaming into my life and play with people who are far away.
 

I can definitely see how a 4e won't be for everyone. Particularly folks who really got into D&D at 3e and have already felt the pain of the 3.5 fiasco.

The more I think about this, though, the more I believe them about no 4.5 edition. Sort of.

See, the key for WotC is that they need to make money, like any business. And, ideally they want to do that in an even way. A level revenue stream is hugely better than one that spikes every 3-5 years when you release a new edition of your product.

They are attempting to do this with the DI stuff, and trying to find a way to provide enough value there to get a high % of players to commit to the monthly fee (I'm waiting to be convinced). They are also doing this by creating the online 'parallel' version of the source books. They have already stated that any errata will be 'automatically updated to the electronic version of your book'.

What I see this meaning is that they will continue to tweak the game, but in smaller more incremental steps than 3.0 to 3.5. Instead you might see rules adjustments and errata a few times a year. Your hard copy book will slowly get out of date (how much? depends on how good a job they do with the first release), but you will have the online version that stays accurate.

As time passes the DMG, PHB, MM will run through initial print runs and the newly published versions will incorporate the errata, having new covers indicating such. They will still be 4th edition D&D, they'll just contain different contents in some parts than the earlier publications. Meanwhile, the steady revenue stream from the DI means they won't push so hard to get people to buy the updated books, I believe they will genuinely try to keep the desktop electronic versions as useful as possible. Subscribers is the key to their future, not the book sales.

This of course means that folks with limited computer access get a bid screwed over. I hate to say it, but in another five years D&D will be becoming the least of the concerns for folks in that area. No need to derail the thread on infrastructure issues, suffice it to say I think it is reasonable for WotC to take the general approach I see, but can certainly understand how individuals would be upset.

Of course this is 90% speculation on my part. I am mostly applying what I see from other industries that have shifted from (or are shifting from) a purchase to own model, more to a subscription model. At first I was concerned, but based on what I see, I think WotC is being pretty reasonable about keeping it purchase to own, but trying to sell the subscription. Where they could lose me in an instant is if players need the subscription to get the latest errata or access all of information they need to use the base books at their tabletop.
 

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