Identifying spells being cast

[Umbran]

There is a difference between knowing a spell so that you can cast it, and knowing a spell such that you recognize it when you see it. You may not know Spanish or German, but you can recognize when someone is speaking it. Or. perhaps more fittingly - you may not be able to do slight of hand, but you can recognize the setup for a card trick...

I will second what others have said - knowing what is being cast at him is fine. But it doesn't mean much unless he's readied an action to counterspell or the like. It's all well and good to see the 16 ton weight dropping on your head, but it doesn't help if you can't stop it or get out of the way.

If you find the PCs doing this constantly - have the enemy spellcaster with a wand in one hand, the other free. Now, the party spellcaster must choose - ready an action to counterspell (and possibly lose the action as the enemy uses the wand), or cast his own spell (and then leave the party open to attack).

Also, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The enemy can use the same tactics as the party.

If the character wants to use up higher level spells to counter using that feat, fine. Those same spells are then not getting used against teh enemy. The spellcaster is giving up power greater than that being used against him. That's not generally a winning proposition.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, how do arcan spell caster recognize Divine spells? The arcane spell users can't cast these spells, but they still know enough about them to recongize what has been cast. Same applies for Sorcerers trying to identify a spell they can't cast. Same applies to a wizard trying to identify a spell not in his own spellbook.

There is a difference between knowing a spell so that you can cast it, and knowing a spell such that you recognize it when you see it. You may not know Spanish or German, but you can recognize when someone is speaking it. Or. perhaps more fittingly - you may not be able to do slight of hand, but you can recognize the setup for a card trick...

I will second what others have said - knowing what is being cast at him is fine. But it doesn't mean much unless he's readied an action to counterspell or the like. It's all well and good to see the 16 ton weight dropping on your head, but it doesn't help if you can't stop it or get out of the way.

If you find the PCs doing this constantly - have the enemy spellcaster with a wand in one hand, the other free. Now, the party spellcaster must choose - ready an action to counterspell (and possibly lose the action as the enemy uses the wand), or cast his own spell (and then leave the party open to attack).

Also, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The enemy can use the same tactics as the party.

If the character wants to use up higher level spells to counter using that feat, fine. Those same spells are then not getting used against teh enemy. The spellcaster is giving up power greater than that being used against him. That's not generally a winning proposition.

Uh, guys? I think you missed the fact that I agreed. I just have to think about certain things in a very specific way for them to make sense to me. It's very rare and applies to only about 0.5% of the materials in D&D, so I don't worry about it.

Besides, don't burn up all your juice throwing counter-arguments at me when there isn't an argument. Save it up for those MEA -> PA -> SA -> MA -> FRA threads.

 

[Crothian]

Uh, guys? I think you missed the fact that I agreed. I just have to think about certain things in a very specific way for them to make sense to me. It's very rare and applies to only about 0.5% of the materials in D&D, so I don't worry about it.

Besides, don't burn up all your juice throwing counter-arguments at me when there isn't an argument. Save it up for those MEA -> PA -> SA -> MA -> FRA threads.

Ya, I realized that at I was writing my post but figured it'd be good to put up there anyway. Besides, you are ussually so contrary that this is almost a habit.

 

[kreynolds]

Besides, you are ussually so contrary that this is almost a habit.

I am not!...........wait a sec.......oh......



Yeah, I just found out yesterday that I am a ruleslaywer when roleplaying. Not all the time, just sometimes. I still feel really bad about it. But I'll tell you what, my games are consistent as hell! I'm just bad sometimes when I'm a player. But it just drives me insane when we are in combat and a fellow player in my group says something like, "I want to draw my sword, run the 60 feet and get in his face, but at the last second, drop to my knees and slide on the ground, like in the movies, and make him think I'm going to stab him in the stomach with my sword, when I'm actually gonna kick their legs out from underneath them." That kind of crap just makes me wanna slap the hell out of them. Not all of them do it, just one that is really abusive of the rules and another who doesn't know the rules very well.

Actually, I'm hoping some of the others from my gaming group will hop on here at some point. They're really shy.

 

[Umbran]

Uh, guys? I think you missed the fact that I agreed.

It's called "giving you backup" The fact that we agree shouldn't be an impediment to my stating my agreeing position, should it?

 

[kreynolds]

It's called "giving you backup" The fact that we agree shouldn't be an impediment to my stating my agreeing position, should it?

LOL

 

[Henrix]

Ah, this is a shameless attempt to return this thread whence it came:

Using Spellcraft all the time, to the annoyance of the DM.

It would seem that using Spellcraft to identify a spell is a Free Action. Good.
However free actions, while they do not take any time woth mentioning, are to be taken in conjunction with other actions.

According to the SRD:

Free Action: A character can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what a character can really do for free.

That means that they may not be done unless it is your turn, or you have readied an action.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

But it just drives me insane when we are in combat and a fellow player in my group says something like, "I want to draw my sword, run the 60 feet and get in his face, but at the last second, drop to my knees and slide on the ground, like in the movies, and make him think I'm going to stab him in the stomach with my sword, when I'm actually gonna kick their legs out from underneath them." That kind of crap just makes me wanna slap the hell out of them.

Why?

This is good role-playing. Of course, the DM now takes the player's description and converts it into the combat rules. The character charges, drawing his weapon with the move, and attempts to trip his opponent. The rest of the description is just fanciful imagination and a great description of the maneuver. It is much better, IMO, than, "I do a charge action at Joe Foe. I draw my sword while moving because I have at least a +1 BAB. When I get there, I attack with the trip action." At the worst, the DM may require a dex/balance check or tumble check for the "slide on the knees" maneuver, but I just take that as flavor text.

 

[Negative Zero]

It would seem that using Spellcraft to identify a spell is a Free Action. Good.
However free actions, while they do not take any time woth mentioning, are to be taken in conjunction with other actions.

That means that they may not be done unless it is your turn, or you have readied an action.

so you're telling me that unless i'm actually acting, i can't see something that's happening in my line of sight? that's pretty much all a spellcraft check is. you see someone going through arcane motions and/or mutterings and you think "hey, i've seen that before!" (or perhaps not depending on the roll.) why do i need to be doing something else to be able to see?

of course "seeing", doesn't mean that you can do anything about it untill your turn. and that should include shouting out "it's a fireball! take cover!" unless of course you readied an action to do something if a spell was cast.

and i wanna add my voice to the "not being able to do something shouldn't stop you from knowing what it is or how to do it" camp. i mean, really, have you seen the majority of gymnastics coaches?

~NegZ

<edit>
yeah Dr.Zoom! :thumbs up: i agree wholeheartedly

 

[Henrix]

No, I am telling you that you cannot do a Free Action while it is not your turn.