If 3.0 Haste were a spell in 3.5, what level would it be?

[Nifft]

What's that new spell out? Celerity? I've seen that broken, so I'm curious what its level is.

Thanks, -- N

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The 'Quicken Spell' feat would be my comparison.

A 3.0 Haste-like spell that acts like the quicken spell feat except:
- can be learned by anyone with access to arcane transmutation (standard copying procedure)
- it lasts 1 rd per caster level
- doesn't require any need to prepare the quickened spells beforehand
- doesn't lower spell level by 4

:\ ... It is just too good at any level.

Once it is available, no matter what your level, it will be cast immediately. The no-brainer aspect of the spell is the dead giveaway.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Ok.

<puts dunce cap on>

I was under the impression that 3.0 Haste did not allow for the casting of multiple spells per round.

That is, beyond what could already be done, 1 standard action spell, and 1 free action spell per round. At low levels, that is usually feather fall (if needed), and whatever else the mage is casting.

</takes dunce cap off>

3.0 Haste granted the caster an extra standard action each round. Thus, you could cast a Quickened spell, a standard spell, and a third spell in the Hasted action. Not what WotC intended, which is why they changed it to give an extra attack each round.

 

[Destil]

I've been considering this, as well. I agree completly with the idea that the biggest breaking point of haste is that there's no oppertunity cost to cast it (i.e. the extra action that round). The best fix I think is a 1 full round casting time (which I expiremented with and liked in 3.0).

1st level - Expediate. Touched creature gets a +2 haste bonus to hit, AC and reflex saves and a +15 foot haste bonus to all movement rates. They may make one extra attack per 4 caster levels over the duration of the spell, but no more often than every other round. Duration 10 rounds + 1 round per level.

3rd level - Haste. per 3.5.

5th level - Timeskew. Affects one creature per 4 caster levels. As 3.5 haste except each creature gains an extra move ation each round instead of the speed bonus, and the AC and to hit bonus is increased to +4.

7th level - Celerity (3.0 haste). Casting time 1 full round. Duration 2d4+1 rounds.

9th level - Time stop.

Edit: And note that Time stop does not do much more, the spells are quite different. There are a lot of limits on the effects you can place while time stopped, while haste is basicly a quickened spell every round or allows fighter types to full attack every round.

 

[Amitiel]

3.0 Haste granted the caster an extra standard action each round. Thus, you could cast a Quickened spell, a standard spell, and a third spell in the Hasted action. Not what WotC intended, which is why they changed it to give an extra attack each round.

?? When did this happen?? After digging out my 3.0 PHB it says it grants an extra partial action.

A partial action is not exactly a standard action. There are limits on what you can do.

You may attack once (regardless of your attacks per round) ORYou may take a 5' step. You may not do both.
You may cast spells that take less then 1 action to cast (like the aforementioned Feather Fall)
You may commit any move action though that is all you may do in that case.

Unfortunatly partial actions were removed in 3.5, which is why the haste spell was rewritten for 3.5. If you really wanted to use it it would have to be rewritten. Most likely to giave a second immediate action as that's the current closest to a partial action.

 

[hong]

?? When did this happen?? After digging out my 3.0 PHB it says it grants an extra partial action.

A partial action is not exactly a standard action. There are limits on what you can do.

You may attack once (regardless of your attacks per round) ORYou may take a 5' step. You may not do both.
You may cast spells that take less then 1 action to cast (like the aforementioned Feather Fall)

You can cast spells that take 1 standard action or less to cast. Which is the vast majority of them.

 

[Li Shenron]

For us Haste became a problem only a high levels, when a caster has lots of spells per day, but at the low-mid levels at which we usually play casting 2/round means depleting your daily spells very fast...

Because of this I am actually not very sure that raising the level would prevent the problem. We started losing fun because of haste (meaning we were too often hasted) at about level 12-13; making it a 9th level spell delays it to level 17, but then again you have the same problem because you cast it ONCE and then you use it to cast lower-level spells.

I think that
(1) reducing the duration (e.g. 1round/3 CL)
(2) adding a gp or xp cost
(3) introducing a % chance of drawback
are better fixes than changing the level.

The (3) is the most flavorful but more difficult to design, so perhaps I'd go with one of the first two.

 

[Nifft]

Okay, thinking finally done.

Hast3.0
Transmutation
Level: Bard 2, Sorc/Wiz 2 (but see below)
Duration: 1 round
Target: You
Range: Personal
Casting time: 1 Swift action

You gain a +2 Dodge bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Reflex saves.

You can cast any spell of the same level as hast3.0 or lower as part of casting this spell, or you can gain an extra attack at your full BAB, or you gain an extra Move action.

Special: If you prepare spells, you automatically gain the effect of Heighten when you prepare this spell in a higher spell slot.

Special: If you spontaneously cast spells, you automatically gain the effect of Heighten when you use a higher level spell slot to cast this spell, but you still cast it as a Swift action.



There. Now you do not get a free 9th level spell for the price of a 3rd level spell, but you can get a free 9th level spell for the price of another 9th level spell.

Thoughts?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Plane Sailing]

There are some nice ideas in this thread.

The ones I like best are:

* 'Haste as a swift action to cast two other spells that round' and without a duration. I could see that working well (although it would obviously be fantastic for sorcerers).

* 'Haste with an expensive material component' because I almost never see Stoneskin cast nowadays... too expensive! So that might work for haste too


* 'Haste is a full round action to cast'

IM3eC, I changed both haste and slow as follows:

Haste - your personal time is accelerated. You gain +4 to AC, to hit and Reflex saves for 1r/level. Movement speed doubled.

Slow - your personal time is decelerated. you have a -4 to AC, to hit and Reflex saves for 1r/level. Movement speed halved.

 

[Nifft]

Slow - your personal time is decelerated. you have a -4 to AC, to hit and Reflex saves for 1r/level. Movement speed halved.

Wait... it works on the caster?!
-- N