If all the designers who left WotC...

[Umbran]

Ah, yes. I didn't know what that was on the horizon. Thanks for clearing it up that it was the goalposts.

As in "I am moving them"? No. We were talking about game developers. The goalpost was always about rules development, and you might have missed that.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't developing game rules a rather different skillset than writing adventures? In general, if I go through a bunch of different games, am I always going to see the same names on the rules and adventures, or am I going to see different sets - some folks working rules, and others working adventures, and a few who do both?

If you want to do rules development, aren't you going to dearly want to go to the place that is doing the most of that? Do you argue that WotC isn't on the road to doing notably more outright rules development than Piazo right now?

If it wasn't about moving the goalposts, I have no idea what you mean there.

 

[Endur]

I agree that Magic and the collectible card game industry sent a ton of revenue into gaming stores.

However, I think we'd still have gaming stores, just different games. Avalon Hill and D&D would have been fine without MtG. Although they wouldn't be owned by WOTC today.

With all those game stores gone, SJG and Avalon Hill and Fantasy Flight Games never really get very big, either. When Settlers of Catan hits the US, there aren't enough venues for it to reach critical mass, delaying or outright destroying the whole designer boardgame surge in the US. Not even sure if AEG ever would have existed; seems likely that without Magic, we'd never have had L5R...

 

[Dungeonmastermark]

As many of those saw my video post= [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kofz95Kliw]D&D next- fate or doom? - YouTube[/ame]

I have to say, It worries me also. I play mostly Pathfinder now but I have always hoped for a version of D&D to bring us all back together as one group again...

As some have speculated It seems Hasbro's policy is to now release a new version every 5 years to bolster sales...

 

[Plane Sailing]

that's another wierd thing, what idiot decided to let a contractor run the team?

I worked 13 years at a Fortune 20-something company. You don't put a contractor over full-timers. It's insulting, and a misalignment of resources and talent.

Happens all the time at big (and I mean really big) companies in the UK. It's not insulting if someone is brought in with the specific skills and experience to do the right job and there isn't anybody in place who could do it.

Cheers

 

[fireinthedust]

Well sure, but Monte isn't the only big name at WOTC. Granted, he is a big name. And he's run his own RPG company for a long time, so there's that. It's imho why they picked him: the name is so 3e linked that they want to bring back a lot of lost customers from Paizo.

Rock Band: they already have those. They're called WOTC and Paizo.

 

[El Mahdi]

...The only point I'm trying to make is that I think that it'd be cool if all these dudes got together and created some sort of SRPG (Super RPG... as opposed to a SuperS RPG).

Instead, they've all gone their separate ways and made their own little projects. Which is cool and given us all some great stuff, but so far the only one that's managed to turn it into a big success seems to have been Paizo. Which only serves to encourage my point; if Paizo can do it, then it means it can be done, and WotC don't have to be the only dog in the race.

At the end of the day, I truly believe that money and labels don't make great things; I believe that people make great things. And the people that have done great things at WotC could do great things together outside of WotC.

They could, as in it's a possibility, but I don't think it would be a given.

What you're talking about here is a synergistic effort by RPG's best and brightest...but synergy isn't an automatic result of something like this. It could be just as likely that competing visions or lack of chemistry could doom it to be worse than any RPG that's come before.

Each person is not a known quantity, and the resultant mix of these individuals is far from a predictable result.


But, if what you envisioned actually happened...these RPG superstars got together and made the most comprehensive and universally perfect RPG ever...they'd actually be hurting themselves as significantly as the game would be good for us. They'd essentially be forever nullifying the need for their skills.

 

[Eric Tolle]

Whatever, man. The only point I'm trying to make is that I think that it'd be cool if all these dudes got together and created some sort of SRPG (Super RPG... as opposed to a SuperS RPG).

We are indeed missing out on the chance to pick said game to pieces, call it a fantasy heartbreaker, and man, what were those clown THINKING?

It would be glorious...

 

[Erik Mona]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't developing game rules a rather different skillset than writing adventures? In general, if I go through a bunch of different games, am I always going to see the same names on the rules and adventures, or am I going to see different sets - some folks working rules, and others working adventures, and a few who do both?

It's not measurably different, really. Writing rules is very difficult, but writing an adventure is actually synthesizing those rules within a context, which takes a certain amount of skill with the rules. Monte Cook is a good example of someone who excels in both disciplines, but there are plenty of others (including people like Jason Bulmahn and James Jacobs here at Paizo).

The disciplines are not really that different, and when it comes to desiring ongoing employment in the hobby games industry, most pros will take whatever job is available.

Your point is significantly muddled by use of the term "developer," as these are the guys who most often have one foot in both disciplines. There aren't really "adventure writers" who write something perfect the first time. At the level of Paizo and Wizards, all of that material is going to be filtered through developers who improve the text for clarity, rules design, and general awesomeness.

Every product that WotC or Paizo does goes through a development cycle.

If you want to do rules development, aren't you going to dearly want to go to the place that is doing the most of that? Do you argue that WotC isn't on the road to doing notably more outright rules development than Piazo right now?

I should think if you want to do rules development, you'll take the job that best suits your ideal work environment, pace, and ambitions. Obviously designing a new edition of D&D is a big feather in the cap of any tabletop game designer. I don't deny that.

I do suspect, at least at this point, that Paizo does more game and rules _development_ than any other shop in the industry.

--Erik

 

[Azgulor]

They could, as in it's a possibility, but I don't think it would be a given.

What you're talking about here is a synergistic effort by RPG's best and brightest...but synergy isn't an automatic result of something like this. It could be just as likely that competing visions or lack of chemistry could doom it to be worse than any RPG that's come before.

Each person is not a known quantity, and the resultant mix of these individuals is far from a predictable result.


But, if what you envisioned actually happened...these RPG superstars got together and made the most comprehensive and universally perfect RPG ever...they'd actually be hurting themselves as significantly as the game would be good for us. They'd essentially be forever nullifying the need for their skills.

I agree with everything in your post except the last paragraph. Even if such a group made a "most comprehensive & universally perfect RPG ever", things change. Tastes change. Mainframes give way to PCs which give way to laptops which give way to tablets....

The only thing that can nullify the desire or need for innovation is short-sightedness.

 

[gamerprinter]

Whatever, man. The only point I'm trying to make is that I think that it'd be cool if all these dudes got together and created some sort of SRPG (Super RPG... as opposed to a SuperS RPG).

Obviously nobody will ever agree on one game being the Super RPG, no matter who creates it. From my point of view, the combination of dudes getting together to create that awesome game has already happened and it called Pathfinder. Monte has influenced that game too.

Even with Monte formerly involved, I'm not even slightly interested in 5e, no matter what it looks like. If it's not like Pathfinder, then I don't want to play. And I don't expect that it would.

I know WotC is the 'big boys', but honestly, I've never been a fan. While I did play 3.5 for a number of years, really not that many. I was still playing 2e throughout all of 3.0, and for the first couple of years of 3.5 before I stopped playing 2e and switched. I had only been playing 3x for 3 years, when 4e showed up, and soon after Pathfinder Beta showed up. So I have never been a solid WotC fan. So there is no lost loyalty from me, as their was never any loyalty in the first place.

The only thing WotC did, that I appreciate (and I do), is that they bought the game when TSR was dead in the water. Even then, it wasn't enough to draw me to the new version. I'm still I'm not driven to want to play 4e nor whatever 5e is supposed to look like. WotC has never been my go to RPG company, and with the directions it's now going - it never will.