D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[Professor Murder]

Because Wisdom is their dump stat.

 

[Voadam]

A lot of D&D is easy to reskin.

I have been playing a 5e paladin from levels 1-8 so far who mechanically is an oath of glory paladin, in universe he is a viking warrior who is just awesome. Smites are anime punches. Being near him just makes things better for you (+4 saves, +10 move) because he is that inspiring. His mechanical lay on hands hp healing is either warlord slap you on the back for encouragement or flipping his hair so you can see his smile and know he has his mojo back after the bad guys looked like they had him on the ropes. Every time he detects evil he comments on how certain things just smell wrong and feel off.

This is in a world where holy knight divinely powered paladins are an in universe thing. A thing he is not a part of.

The other paladin in the group is a part of that narrative thing with full on divine angel powers.

There are corner case situations where reskinning could get awkward, I am sure there are specific paladin spells that would take some work, but for the most part it has been easy and seamless and worked really well and been a lot of fun.

 

[mamba]

I don't understand how the cleric class mechanical chassis only "makes sense" as an agent of the gods.

I am not sure anyone said that is the only way in which it can. But ‘I believe in myself or some idea so strongly that I can perform miracles’ just does not make sense to me, and I’d prefer the rulebook to either find a better approach for not needing a god, or leave the solution up to the table instead of spouting nonsense

EDIT: a good example for this is the post right above this one

 

[Fifinjir]

Non-deity clerics are not at all new in D&D, and frankly fit the worldbuilding too. The deities by and large aren’t depicted as the ultimate power in the multiverse; for instance, they’re bound by the alignments. Also, the fact that many gods were once mortals implies that they themselves have an external power source (in a lot of worlds this source is the faith of mortals). So there are forces that even the gods are subject to, and it’s not that much of a stretch to assume some mortals can tap into those forces.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Non-deity clerics are not at all new in D&D

Yeah, they've been core since at least 3e. Not .5-- 3e.

Twenty years ago.

So I expect the Tradition! and 'Not D&D' crowds to rally around inf a blood fervor to defend this idea. It's been around a long time. We're no longer allowed to evaluate it on its many merits, it is part of The Canon now.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I am not sure anyone said that is the only way in which it can. But ‘I believe in myself or some idea so strongly that I can perform miracles’ just does not make sense to me, and I’d prefer the rulebook to either find a better approach for not needing a god, or leave the solution up to the table instead of spouting nonsense

In multiple D&D settings, worship is what grants God's the their power. How is it "spouting nonsense" to take that to it's logical conclusion (that worship grants power, and that by believing in yourself enough, you can gain divine magic).

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Yeah, they've been core since at least 3e

Longer if you count Dark Sun and Planescape.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Longer if you count Dark Sun and Planescape.

We both know I don't.

 

[Scribe]

In multiple D&D settings, worship is what grants God's them their power. How is it "spouting nonsense" to take that to it's logical conclusion (that worship grants power, and that by believing in yourself enough, you can gain divine magic).

Exactly.

It's a bit of fun folks. Yes it's a weird extreme if you like, but it's all just a laugh anyway.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Exactly.

It's a bit of fun folks. Yes it's a weird extreme if you like, but it's all just a laugh anyway.

Which is precisely why I would restrict it to only granting you power if you actually worship yourself (either through narcissistic delusion causing a God Complex or a desire of apotheosis, like the Blood of Vol). Self-confidence isn't enough. Religious devotion is.