If PCs are 1st level, why don't their 9th level patrons help?

[reiella]

While thinking about the background history for my adventure, I decided to place a monastery and cleric temple within the area. In both places I decided to have a 9th level monk and cleric be in charge of their respective areas.

Now, if there is some BBEG running around in the nearby caves, why wouldn't they just go themselves to take care of it?

The area for the adventure is in the wilderness with the nearest town roughly 3-6 hours away. The town is basically just a small village.

More or less you said it yourself.

They're in charge of the respective areas and the temple/monastery.
For the same reason that a manager doesn't do all the work himself, or if you need a 'happier' metaphor, it's better to know how to fish, than to have fish given to you. Part of those NPCs handling the situation is delegating to new folk.

 

[Umbran]

This I agree with, but this argues against the level based system.

One might presume so on first guess, but not after you put a bit of thought into it...

Social status isn't static. You cannot hold and maintain high social status without the proper knowledge of society and skills with diplomacy, finance, and such. And in D&D there's a limit as to how good you can get with those skills at low level.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

One might presume so on first guess, but not after you put a bit of thought into it...

Social status isn't static. You cannot hold and maintain high social status without the proper knowledge of society and skills with diplomacy, finance, and such. And in D&D there's a limit as to how good you can get with those skills at low level.

And don't forget NPC classes. A high level expert is no match for a mid level PC, or even a low level party. And if you want skill points the expert is great for most NPCs of authority, as is aristocrat.

The Auld Grump

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Social status isn't static. You cannot hold and maintain high social status without the proper knowledge of society and skills with diplomacy, finance, and such. And in D&D there's a limit as to how good you can get with those skills at low level.

WHY???

Again, experience may make you a better diplomat. But why should that make you harder to kill?

 

[Breakstone]

WHY???

Again, experience may make you a better diplomat. But why should that make you harder to kill?

Because it's D&D! The problem some people seem to be having is that they're attempting to argue the D&D out of D&D. When attempting to figure out things like this, you've got to look at the setting- D&D is a world in which gaining exprerience from fighting orcs, saving damsels, and solving puzzles does make you harder to kill- and that's just that.

D&D is a world in which the 1st level characters are sent to kill the kobolds because they're the main characters. Sure, the 9th level cleric could go out and kill them all in one fell swoop, but what fun would that be for the players?

Now a realistic answer is needed to help suspend the sense of disbelief, but you've got to take in the more fantastical aspects of D&D when pondering this.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

There have been a number of interesting posts here. Though, in my opinion, none satisfactorily answer the original question. The answers given seem to boil down to:

the simple: change the level of the patron

the complicated: the patron is too busy doing something much more important (like saving the world)

and, the fatuous: maybe he can’t be bothered.

Everyone refers to npc’s by their level, he’s a 20th level King or a 12th level General. The key to a good game, for me, is a consistent background, where a king is a king, a general is a general. Levels are an artificial construct. Even if you use them (and it’s your choice after all) how can bloke #1 determine the level of bloke #2. Does he wear a hat with his level written on it? No! Two warriors size each other up. Is the one with better armour the higher level, or is he simply richer, or luckier. The fact is that almost everyone here refers to npc’s and pc’s by level and class, these are artificial constructs which cannot be judged by looking at someone.

The level based system with its massive disparities in abilities between even first and fifth level characters skews everything into the realms of unreality. (I know, it’s a fantasy game, whet should I expect?) I’ll hold up my hand here, I got bored with DnD 15 or more years ago, I’ve glanced at the system since but it doesn’t engage me. I only ever ran two long campaigns. One finished when the pc’s were 5th level, the second got them up to tenth. It was a long hard slog, but I’d bought the Giant & Drow modules when they first came out (’77?) (amazing that the first ever published modules were for high level, not beginning characters). But when we got them past the fire giants the threat escalation factor had got to us all. We were bored with simply killing bigger monsters. I had discovered that characters above about 7th level bored me, so I switched to the bizarre and wonderful world of Glorantha & RuneQuest. Any system where hit points don’t improve (or in the case of HârnMaster, don’t exist) completely changes the way you game. Tsunami is right, either accept DnD for what it is (a system where you go from wimp to demi-god in 30 levels) or (and I know that it’s not for everyone) if npc levels bother you, and are getting in the way of the type of campaign you want to run, why not look at a system where they don’t exist?

 

[rounser]

I'm surprised, I thought at least some of you were experienced DMs. Any old hand at the DMing game knows that calling on the Powers of Verisimilitude (TM) is the correct way to deal with this problem, as described in this example, a sneak preview excerpt from the 4.25E DMG:

1st Level PC 1: Father, your battle prowess, and the miracles wrought by the strength of your faith, far exceed our own. Why don't you deal with the orc threat yourself?
Local 9th Level Cleric: By the holy symbol I bear, I've tried, but every time I make a move towards doing so I get ambushed by ninjas.
1st Level PC 2: Ambushed by ninjas?
Local 9th Level Cleric: Yes, my son. Seemingly unlimited numbers of ninjas that appear out of thin air, wearing black pyjamas and armed with wiffle bats and nerf shurikens. So I've had to enlist your help, as we can't get past the ninjas. Or maybe you could get the local monaestery to deal with the problem; every time I try to contact them, the ninja thing starts happening again. Maybe it's an omen.

[LATER, AT THE MONAESTERY]
1st Level PC 1: ...so we've come to you for help to deal with the orcs, as the church keeps getting waylaid by ninjas.
Local 9th Level Monk: The seasons change. So too do the fates of men. Balrog in the woodpile.
1st Level PC 1: What?
Local 9th Level Monk: Balrog...in the woodpile. Can't leave the monaestery, keeps eating us. You alone must turn the orcish tide. And maybe, fetch us some firewood.
1st Level PC 2: But we walked right in here, and didn't see a balrog, let alone get eaten.
Local 9th Level Monk: It's hiding in the woodpile. Seems to have developed a taste only for monks from this monaestery, especially ones thinking about dealing with the orcish threat. Thus it is, and has been, for well nigh two weeks.
1st Level PC 1: (rolling eyes) Okay already, we get the hint...

 

[nikolai]

Part of the problem may be with world design. If you have powerful and benevolent gods, kingdoms and NPCs you are going to have problems with why kobolds aren't all routinely hunted down and slaughtered by 10th level uber-characters.

Why not have powerful characters be disinterested or absorbed in their own petty squables. Gods might not be all that interested in what happens to mortals - except a few of their favoured worshipers. Powerful wizards may just want to study magic (and plot against their rivals). And kingdoms don't have to be run by evil warlords for the welfare of peasants not to be on the top of the agenda.

Or you can have a world swamped by evil. And powerful character have better things to do.

 

[megamania]

Especially by mentioning monastary (place of learning/honing skills) I would think the chief would send PCs to test their skills.

Afterall, one must break a few PCs to make it to Epic

 

[tmaaas]

I'm looking forward to seeing Eberron's solution to this question. Most people, including the leader of the temple & etc., are NPC classes. The PCs are something special. Even from the beginning they have the essence of heros, and when they grow more experienced, they'll be able to do things that nobody else can.

Except, of course, the bad guys.