If the mage spells are being weakened, what compensation is being given to the mage?

[Edena_of_Neith]

It really does definitely sound like the mage is going to be weakened - although if little information has been released that is only conjecture, of course.

I do hope for more return input.

 

[SemperJase]

what compensation is being given to the mage?

Well, I've seen the contract and the mage is just loaded up with stock options as well as certain achievement incentive bonuses

 

[Volaran]

Keep in mind, these don't just apply to the wizard and sorceror. There are 'animal' buff spells on the bard and cleric lists as well. In fact, I've seen many people comment on their cleric being the group's primary source of buff magic.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

I guess I really don't see the adjustment of a handful of spells as weakening the mage—the spells that are being changed are, as people have pointed out, slightly problematic. I think ultimately this may make sorcerers and wizards more interesting characters as it'll promote (to some degree) a change in how the players pick spells. Anyhow, I'm with Ankh-Morpork Guard and William Ronald for the most; I think they're dead on.

Best,
tKL

 

[Mark]

So, what is the mage (and the sorcerer) getting in return?

Corner office in the high tower, two additional weeks of vacation and Full Mental Coverage (from the Psions)...

 

[Mouseferatu]

You're arguing from a logical fallacy here. You claim that "weakening a few mage spells" = "weakening the mage." That's simply not true.

The mage is just as powerful as ever. They can still do almost everything they used to. It's just that a select few of their options aren't quite as "good" as they were. And most of those options are spells that are likely to be used on others as much, if not more, than they are on the mages themselves.

If they were reducing the mage's spells per day, that would be weakning the class. This...

Imagine if they said they were reducing the bastard sword--not any other weapons, just the bastard word--to 1d6 from 1d8. Are they weakening the fighter? After all, with their BAB and bonus feats (including Exotic Weapon), fighters statistically use bastard swords more often than anyone else.

It's really the same sort of thing. A few--very few--tools/options are being altered. The class itself is functionally unchanged.

 

[Thresher]

WoTC just seem to be trying to make the system as bullet-proof as they can, how successful remains to be seen. The only problem most people have is that they are over-doing some things that 'can' be abused by the lowest common denominator of gamers.

For a lot of us, we see the loophole, area of abuse and we dont use it out of respect for not giving a GM greif/hogging the spotlight over players.
As a result not much is going to change for some of us and we'll probably keep what we like out of 3E and 3.5E if we dont think its going to throw the game out of whack too much.

For other people who enjoy tearing a rules system to pieces to make a whore of themselves with the rules then theyre going to find that area a bit harder to molest because 'its not in the book' anymore. As a result the game just got a lot more bearable for some GM's that have people that cause those problems.

Like most things in life, you take what you like and keep it, discard what you think will be annoying and keep on rolling.

To be honest, a lot of this can be solved by a GM just saying "Not in my game" and a player(s) not wanting to cause anyone too much hassle.
Failing that, a good punch in the face can work wonders on some people...

 

[Sejs]

It really does definitely sound like the mage is going to be weakened - although if little information has been released that is only conjecture, of course.

I do hope for more return input.

You're getting it. By the bucketfull. You just need to listen even if it's not what you want to hear.

No. Mages are not being weakened. They're getting no real 'carrot' to making up for adjusting some of the spells that were problematic. Some spells are being changed, but the classes themselves are not undergoing significant alteration. The stat buff changed hit clerics, druids, and bards the same way they hit arcane casters. Same with Haste, etc for people that can cast them.

 

[Felon]

You're getting it. By the bucketfull. You just need to listen even if it's not what you want to hear.

Well-said.

 

[rangerjohn]

Well your not hearing the other side. Here is a long time player of wizards is telling you he will no longer play the class. Doesn't that worry you? From you username you know my usual class, but all these changes worry me. It's not just a hand full of spells, from what we have seen all categories expept divination and evocation have been changed. Evocation was nerfed in 3e. It's not just spells either thier feats are also being nerfed, so far spell focus and greater spell focus. I'm sorry I don't want every party member to be a warrior. But since WOTC and apparently the community in general don't care, I probably will just drop out of the hobby.