If the mage spells are being weakened, what compensation is being given to the mage?

[Edena_of_Neith]

It says Fireball creates that kind of intense heat, though.
Fireball does not melt metal in a matter of minutes, nor even seconds, but almost instantly - in a fraction of a second.

That's a lot of heat. The Fireball must be truly, incredibly, hot.

Hot enough to make armor glow red from the heat, at least.
Hot enough to vaporize leather and fabrics.
Hot enough to vaporize or melt exposed flesh.
Hot enough to start an out of control forest fire amidst wet, green wood.
Hot enough to completely char solid, thick dry wood.
Hot enough to leave a shallow crater in loose topsoil.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

My opinion

Hmmm ...

I have decided to take sides.
I am siding with the Anti Mage-Nerfers, for lack of a better term.

Of course, we will not know for certain what is what until July.
Still, based on what I'm hearing, I think WOTC is making a mistake concerning the mage, and possibly all the spellcasting classes - if what I'm hearing is true.

One can have too much Game Balance, and not enough game imagination and game creativity.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Al]

I am siding with the Anti Mage-Nerfers, for lack of a better term.

Good choice, and the term isn't bad either.

To anyone interested, I've posted a poll here:
Poll on Spell Changes in 3.5e .

If you would continue posting in this thread though, I'd be appreciative, rather than having numerous threads about the same topic cross-posted everywhere.

 

[Mark]

Re: My opinion

One can have too much Game Balance, and not enough game imagination and game creativity.

These are not mutually exclusive pursuits.

 

[Salthanas]

I'll add my two cents for what its worth.

Fundamentally the problem as I see it is that WoTC are trying to balance characters classes who's abilities can be used a finite number of times against classes who's abilities can be used infinitely. This seems to me to be as productive as the art of trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

It would seem to me that a Mage who has used his best spells for the day can do nothing more than bleed over his opponent.
On the converse side though are people advocating the "nerfs" suggesting that non spellcasting classes should still be the equal of a fully spelled up and prepared caster. If the answer to that question is yes then they seem to be suggesting a rather perculiar version of balance.


As WoTC seem to be using the rule of thumb that if everyone is using it it must be to good it seems odd that some people would start to suggest that a way for wizards to sort themselves out would be to make extensive use of things like the scribe scroll feat. If all wizards start scribing scrolls does that not suggest that that particular ability is broken according to their definition and the one they've used to "nerf" certain spells. This of course excludes tha fact that Wizards would have to be paying xp for the dubious honour of keeping up with other classes.

yuors Salthanas

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that balance is in the hands of the DM rather than the rules. You can hop from one foot to the next, alternating between what has been "nerfed", who has gotten "the shaft", and who is just plain "broken" all day long. What works for one campaign may not work for another. If the DM of the latter game uses these message boards and rants about how unbalancing a class or spell is, does that make it universally so? In the end, the DM needs to tailor his game to challenge his players as he sees fit. The rules can only do so much.

 

[Kestrel]

In response to the original question

A new familiar type: The Chicken

Special Abilities given to Wizard:
Gives a +5 to AC when running away or hiding in the back of the group. Also gives a +20% when leeching xp, but only when leeching.

 

[Darkness]

... a core rule, that I would Rule Zero (change the rule)

I wouldn't Rule Zero that rule against the players, since the rule obviously protects the hard won items of the characters from chance destruction by an enemy attack.
However, I would Rule Zero it against my own NPCs, as a DM. (as per my Fireball post above.) The players, at least, would enjoy it when they rained mayhem down on my NPCs.

If you only apply it to enemies, your player won't get as many new hard won items in the future.

 

[Darkness]

Re: In response to the original question

A new familiar type: The Chicken

Special Abilities given to Wizard:
Gives a +5 to AC when running away or hiding in the back of the group. Also gives a +20% when leeching xp, but only when leeching.

This AC bonus stacks with Mobility when fleeing out of a threatened space, right?

Also, a CN gold elven fighter/wizard one of my players had in 2e would love an offensive version of this - i.e., something else instead of the AC bonus, but the xp leeching must stay.
'cuz he always waited in the back and let the other PCs bear the brunt of the enemy assault, only to finish off severely-wounded enemies with a well-placed fireball. The reason: If you were a fighter, you got extra xp for dealing the killing blow to an enemy (10 xp per HD the enemy had, IIRC).

In other news: This character, who also was quite racist toward half-elves and moon elves and arrogant toward non-wizards, later went on to polymorph other an entire goblin village into gold elves so he had warriors and a harem.

(Heh. I think I don't need to point out how much the other PCs (one half-moon elf and a couple humans, mostly fighters and a few thieves - all good-aligned, IIRC) hated him by that point.)

 

[diaglo]

Edit: I never considered a fireball to be so hot as to cause the kind of damage Edena described. If the heat was enough to melt steel items easily in just the fraction of a round of exposure, it wouldn't be 10d6; it would be more like save or die.

well if you use the optional 50hp rule in the DMG. and the DM rolled high enough (50hp or higher). and you failed your save vs. the fireball, and you failed the 50hp save, etc...

it very well could be an instant kill still.