5E If you had to choose: short rest vs long rest

Would you rather all abilities recover on a short rest or a long rest?

  • Short Rest (All)

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • Short Rest (Primarily)

    Votes: 19 45.2%
  • Long Rest (All)

    Votes: 17 40.5%

  • Total voters
    42

Xeviat

Adventurer
My question is why are you doing this?
Because it will make balancing encounters and the adventuring day easier. Short rests would make both much easier. Long rest recovery opens up the 5 minute adventuring day problem, but I'll admit that's more of an issue with planning than it is at play (I've only seen it happen a few times, groups tend to be pretty good about spreading their abilities out).

Long rest recovery would lend itself to more of a D&D feel, with resource management as part of the game. Short rest recovery could lead to the 4E 'tactical miniatures game' feel, which I wasn't opposed to but I recognize it does strain some people's believability. Long rest recovery does have a more "realistic" feel to it too.
 
I chose Short Rest (Primarily). That one seems like it would be the least disruptive.

That said, wouldn't it be easier to just split the 3e encounters into 6-8 encounters and have some of them chain together (so that unless they are careful it ends up being 4 big encounters)? Just a thought.
 

Saelorn

Hero
Honestly, as long as you cut HP by two-thirds, a game of only short rests might really work out. You will have an exceptionally long apprentice phase (where you can be dropped by one lucky hit), though.
 
This is the thing I'm looking to address. If nearly everything was short rest, or if everything was long rest, then you'd only have to stress about balancing the encounter or the day. Balancing the encounter is easier, in my opinion, because balancing the day requires restrictions on when people can rest. If you do a 4E style game, where a short rest is measured in minutes instead of a full hour, and you expect a short rest after almost every fight (except gauntlet/reinforcement fights), then balancing the feel for easy, medium, hard, and deadly becomes much, much easier.

Take Red Hand of Doom for example. In 3E, a day was balanced around 4 moderate encounters in a day. One of the set pieces is taking out a keep that the bad guys have holed up in. There were 4 encounters set up in the keep, and one couldn't reasonably start attacking the keep then stop to take a rest.

For 5E, players can only really handle 2 moderate encounters per short rest, and need 6 moderate encounters to hit their daily xp threshold; going under that will make an easy day, which then makes it difficult to make the adventure feel perilous. 5E PCs can handle maybe 3 deadly fights in a day, with a short rest between each, but with those taking a full hour, you have to stretch things out.

In 4E, players could handle 4 moderate encounters in a day, with a short rest after each one. That same keep is very easy to convert to 4E.

I can just convert the keep fight as is, and just accept that it will be an overly difficult fight for the short rest resource characters in the party, but balancing all classes around the same point would be far, far easier.
Full Casters have more resources than other classes. Non-full casteres do more at will stuff than full casters. You still have to balance the adventuring day around those discrepancies.
 

Xeviat

Adventurer
Full Casters have more resources than other classes. Non-full casteres do more at will stuff than full casters. You still have to balance the adventuring day around those discrepancies.
Only in so far that classes with more rest resources have an easier time with easy encounters and a harder time with hard encounters.

But really, the rogue is the only class with a major lack of rest recovery abilities, though some fighter subclasses and the barbarian also lacks a lot. Half-casters (including the monk in my book) have their spells, fighters have subclass abilities.

This type of change would be aiming for a change towards a more 4E style thing.

But ... long rest may "feel" more like D&D.
 
Only in so far that classes with more rest resources have an easier time with easy encounters and a harder time with hard encounters.

But really, the rogue is the only class with a major lack of rest recovery abilities, though some fighter subclasses and the barbarian also lacks a lot. Half-casters (including the monk in my book) have their spells, fighters have subclass abilities.

This type of change would be aiming for a change towards a more 4E style thing.

But ... long rest may "feel" more like D&D.
Right but 4e had balanced at wills for everyone. 5e still won't no matter what you do with encounter and daily. That's all I'm saying.
 

Xeviat

Adventurer
That's probably the worst solution I've seen IMO. Warlocks can make it work because they also get invocations and a better than normal cantrip.
I assumed such a change would require invocations.

That might be okay, though. I certainly had a lot of fun building warlocks with their invocations.
 
I assumed such a change would require invocations.

That might be okay, though. I certainly had a lot of fun building warlocks with their invocations.
Ah, if that's your plan then continue on. Most wouldn't want to design invocations for every other caster.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
I mean at that point why not just tweak warlock and make everyone play one?
Fighter, Rogue, Monk, Barbarian (change rage to 1/SR), Warlock would make a pretty fun game, IMO, as long as you're generous with allowing new subclasses.
 
Fighter, Rogue, Monk, Barbarian (change rage to 1/SR), Warlock would make a pretty fun game, IMO, as long as you're generous with allowing new subclasses.
IMO, once per SR rage would feel pretty bad.

There's a problem when you only have 1 use of something that phytologically prevents you from using it (especially something defensively powerful) - which basically means the barbarian will rage a lot less as there is less error tolerance in trying to conserve it for when he really needs it.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
IMO, once per SR rage would feel pretty bad.

There's a problem when you only have 1 use of something that phytologically prevents you from using it (especially something defensively powerful) - which basically means the barbarian will rage a lot less as there is less error tolerance in trying to conserve it for when he really needs it.
Sure, but based on the OP, I'm assuming that the adventure is being set up with short rest opportunities being pretty frequent, so that there's about 1-2 encounters between SR. That makes the need to conserve less pronounced.

Spitballing here, but maybe let the barbarian take a 2nd rage at the cost of one level of exhaustion when the rage ends, and give Barbarians the Tireless ability from the UA Ranger Class Variants?
 
Sure, but based on the OP, I'm assuming that the adventure is being set up with short rest opportunities being pretty frequent, so that there's about 1-2 encounters between SR. That makes the need to conserve less pronounced.
So if there can be sometimes 1 and sometimes 2 encounters between - do you use it on the first encounter always - to ensure you get to use it? Do you wait and sometimes never use it at all in that cycle because there isn't a 2nd encounter. (Assuming the 2nd encounter might be quite a bit harder if there is one?)

Spitballing here, but maybe let the barbarian take a 2nd rage at the cost of one level of exhaustion when the rage ends, and give Barbarians the Tireless ability from the UA Ranger Class Variants?
I find exhaustion to be a poor solution to most everything. Not sure what the tireless ability does.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
So if there can be sometimes 1 and sometimes 2 encounters between - do you use it on the first encounter always - to ensure you get to use it? Do you wait and sometimes never use it at all in that cycle because there isn't a 2nd encounter. (Assuming the 2nd encounter might be quite a bit harder if there is one?)
I...don't know? I mean, isn't making that decision kind of part of the fun?

I guess a sticking point here is how often should a barbarian be able to rage, in general? I don't really know if there's an agreed upon balance point for that. I've seen some people say barbarians scale poorly at higher tiers and being able to rage every fight would be the proper balance point, and I've seen other people dispute that.

I find exhaustion to be a poor solution to most everything. Not sure what the tireless ability does.
Tireless is basically remove one level of exhaustion once per SR. Exhaustion is not ideal, but I don't how important simulationist rationales for abilities are to the OP.
 
I...don't know? I mean, isn't making that decision kind of part of the fun?

I guess a sticking point here is how often should a barbarian be able to rage, in general? I don't really know if there's an agreed upon balance point for that. I've seen some people say barbarians scale poorly at higher tiers and being able to rage every fight would be the proper balance point, and I've seen other people dispute that.
In long rest style progression it's literally I can use a few until i'm down to 1 and reach super conservation mode. Making super conservation mode be the only way is probably not as much fun for most people


Tireless is basically remove one level of exhaustion once per SR. Exhaustion is not ideal, but I don't how important simulationist rationales for abilities are to the OP.
Oh wow. Perhaps to strong of a mechanic then WOW.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
In long rest style progression it's literally I can use a few until i'm down to 1 and reach super conservation mode. Making super conservation mode be the only way is probably not as much fun for most people
No, I get that. You run into that issue playing straight warlock. Once you cast a spell, you're down to 1 spell left, and if you use a 2nd spell for offense, then you don't have an escape spell or defensive spell available.

Oh wow. Perhaps to strong of a mechanic then WOW.
Yea, there was a good amount of chatter about how a Ranger 1 dip made Berzerker Barbarian really strong.
 

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