D&D 5E If you use thunderstep but teleport less than 10 feet do you take damage?

[Maxperson]

It could be the transit is nearly instant, but the disappearance and appearance take some time. I mean, the can't occupy the same space-time after all.

Sure, but the amount of time is so incredibly small that there wouldn't be time to move in-between the disappearance and re-appearance, and would be faster than the speed of sound.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, I'm with you on the interpretation. I think too many people are trying too hard to screw the caster.

My argument has nothing to do with "screwing" casters.

 

[Lyxen]

Look around. Look where instantaneous is used. It's very specifically a term used in very specific places.

Yes, it's used in spells, as per the definition that I posted, meaning "in an instant". This is the RAW.

So you honestly think people in combat walk at the speed of teleport when they ready an action? This is how you run your games to make sense?

What I'm saying is that over a short distance, it might be as fast for a combattant to just hurry there in a flash than waiting for a star trek-like teleport where you rather slowly fade out and in, with possibly some time in the transfer itself. Both of these happening "in an instant".

Just out of curiosity, if you're okay with the ridiculousness of walking/running faster than a teleport to avoid something happening at the speed of sound

How fast is the sound in your game world ? Is it always the same one ? Is it influenced by air pressure ? Because, that in turn, depends on the gravity and we know that gravity is not that of the real world in D&D, see for instance Spelljammer gravity which is official in 5e.

There are a lot of things that can work very differently. Moreover, the speed of sound might not even be relevant, if the fade out is relatively slow, the boom might allow enough time to roll out the the way, 15 feet is honestly not that far at all, even at my age I can manage a judo lunge, fall and rise to be more than 15 feet away in a blink.

There are so many explanations, like the fact that, although it's in an instance, it's not really a sonic boom damaging people (it would be silly for it to be in a cubic shape after all, and to stop abruptly out of that cube), maybe it's just magic creating a boom inside the boundary, and that part of the magic needs an instant to build up, giving time for someone to roll out of the way.

In any case, it very cinematic.

why do you have an issue with the ridiculousness of sequential nature in D&D combat as written?

First, it's not written as sequential, it's written as simultaneous (cf. the snippet that I sent you a few posts back). The resolution of the turns is sequential, but I hope that you are not still advocating that every combattant is freezing in place until it's his turn to act ?

This is why I don't have a problem with it at all, and why it poses me no difficulty whatsoever to have globally simultaneous action with sometimes sequential events influencing the whole narration.

But it causes YOU a problem, possibly with the freezing problem above, but with the duration of the rounds, since you are pretending that turns are all 6 seconds long like the rounds, which would cause the rounds' lengths to be not "about six seconds" but six seconds times the number of combattants...

Sure, but the amount of time is so incredibly small that there wouldn't be time to move in-between the disappearance and re-appearance, and would be faster than the speed of sound.

See above, you have no proof that disappearance, or reappearance, or transfer, or boom, or whatever is that fast. The only thing that we know is that it happens in an instant that is too quick for it to be caught by a dispelling. And if you are discussing the RAW, all your other personal preferences and hypothesis are irrelevant.

 

[Umbran]

I think too many people are trying too hard to screw the caster.

Because ascribing motives to people is just an awesome thing to do? And if someone wanted to use your choosing to make this comment to divine your motives, and they weren't particularly complimentary.. you'd really like that?

The Golden Rule, people. You know it. Please apply it.

 

[Maxperson]

What I'm saying is that over a short distance, it might be as fast for a combattant to just hurry there in a flash than waiting for a star trek-like teleport where you rather slowly fade out and in, with possibly some time in the transfer itself. Both of these happening "in an instant".

That's true.............................for Star Trek So in Star Trek you can do that. D&D is not Star Trek and doesn't have slow teleports like Star Trek does. It has instantaneous ones. It's impossible in D&D for racial movement to move faster than an instantaneous teleport.

How fast is the sound in your game world ? Is it always the same one ? Is it influenced by air pressure ? Because, that in turn, depends on the gravity and we know that gravity is not that of the real world in D&D, see for instance Spelljammer gravity which is official in 5e.

Gravity in 5e uses the laws of gravity. We know that from RAW quotes which I have provided in other threads. Where is official Spelljammer gravity in 5e? I don't remember seeing anything about Spelljammer other than in the UA.

There are a lot of things that can work very differently. Moreover, the speed of sound might not even be relevant, if the fade out is relatively slow, the boom might allow enough time to roll out the the way, 15 feet is honestly not that far at all, even at my age I can manage a judo lunge, fall and rise to be more than 15 feet away in a blink.

Not faster than an instantaneous teleport.

First, it's not written as sequential, it's written as simultaneous (cf. the snippet that I sent you a few posts back). The resolution of the turns is sequential, but I hope that you are not still advocating that every combattant is freezing in place until it's his turn to act ?

You mean the fluff snippet of always in motion? That doesn't even contradict the sequential hard rule that I posted. Moving around sequentially every round is still "In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand." Even your fluff fails to show your claim of simultaneous combat.

As for freezing in place, this is a fact of D&D combat. You can have 30 orcs 60 feet away from the door and 30 feet from my PC who is in the middle. No surprise and all of us wanting to run for the door, and because they win initiative all 30 orcs make it to the door before my PC can move. Not only that, but despite all of us wanting to get out of the door, I can look at those 30 of those orcs AT THE DOOR before I moved, and decide to move a different direction from the point I was standing at.

That would be impossible if combat were anything resembling simultaneous.

See above, you have no proof that disappearance, or reappearance, or transfer, or boom, or whatever is that fast.

I have the definition of instantaneous. Even your judo skills don't allow you to move 15 feet in an instant. As fast as it is, it's slower than that.

 

[Irlo]

As for freezing in place, this is a fact of D&D combat. You can have 30 orcs 60 feet away from the door and 30 feet from my PC who is in the middle. No surprise and all of us wanting to run for the door, and because they win initiative all 30 orcs make it to the door before my PC can move. Not only that, but despite all of us wanting to get out of the door, I can look at those 30 of those orcs AT THE DOOR before I moved, and decide to move a different direction from the point I was standing at.

It’s interesting that you can accept all that weirdness and incongruity as RAW, but that it then becomes a problem when it comes to resolving reactions with similar weirdness.

We all have our own limits of what we’ll accept.

 

[Maxperson]

It’s interesting that you can accept all that weirdness and incongruity as RAW, but that it then becomes a problem when it comes to resolving reactions with similar weirdness.

I tolerate it since it's necessary for combat to work. The alternative is to run combat simultaneously, where in a combat with 30 orcs and 5 PCs, all 35 take a step or begin to do something, then all 35gets to react to everything they see happening, then the all react some more, and again, and again, and again, until all movement and attacks are done. It would be a chaotic mess that takes 10 or more hours to complete.

Sequential combat is something to be endured in order to have combats happen at a reasonable pace.

 

[Lyxen]

That's true.............................for Star Trek So in Star Trek you can do that. D&D is not Star Trek and doesn't have slow teleports like Star Trek does.

Prove it. Once more, your personal preferences have no relevance to the RAW, which does not say how teleport works more precisely than the quotes that I've given you many times now.

It has instantaneous ones. It's impossible in D&D for racial movement to move faster than an instantaneous teleport.

Again, prove it, using rules.

On the other hand, I have given you incontrovertible proof that it can, according to the RAW so...

Gravity in 5e uses the laws of gravity. We know that from RAW quotes which I have provided in other threads.

Sorry, but no. According to RAW, 20th level characters can fall from any height without any risk of dying. That is pure RAW. How does this work with real world gravity ?

Where is official Spelljammer gravity in 5e? I don't remember seeing anything about Spelljammer other than in the UA.

• An invisible gravity plane cuts through the asteroid along its equator, as illustrated in the Side View of the asteroid on map 16. Creatures and objects inside the asteroid’s air envelope fall toward this gravity plane. Creatures and objects inside the asteroid fall toward the floor, as normal.
• When placed aboard a vessel weighing between 1 and 100 tons, the helm generates an artificial gravity field while the ship is in the void of space, so that creatures can walk on the ship’s decks as they normally would. Creatures and objects that fall overboard bob in a gravity plane that extends out from the main deck for a distance equal in length to the vessel’s beam.

Not faster than an instantaneous teleport.

Again, prove it, when actually RAW says it can.

You mean the fluff snippet of always in motion? That doesn't even contradict the sequential hard rule that I posted. Moving around sequentially every round is still "In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand." Even your fluff fails to show your claim of simultaneous combat.

Highlighted. Where is the freezing that is supposed to happen with your interpretation ?

As for freezing in place, this is a fact of D&D combat.

Actually, it's not, again it's only your personal interpretation of it. Show me the rules that say that creatures whose turn it is not are frozen until it's their turn again ?

You can have 30 orcs 60 feet away from the door and 30 feet from my PC who is in the middle. No surprise and all of us wanting to run for the door, and because they win initiative all 30 orcs make it to the door before my PC can move. Not only that, but despite all of us wanting to get out of the door, I can look at those 30 of those orcs AT THE DOOR before I moved, and decide to move a different direction from the point I was standing at.

Only because you describe it that way. I can spin a totally different tale depending on your actions.

That would be impossible if combat were anything resembling simultaneous.

Again, you are not reading things properly. Not everything is simultaneous, just many things, and some things are sequential, it happens as well.

I have the definition of instantaneous.

Yes, me too, according to the RAW, it means "happens in an instant". Are you using the RAW definition to discuss the RAW ?

Even your judo skills don't allow you to move 15 feet in an instant. As fast as it is, it's slower than that.

And how long is an instant, ACCORDING TO THE RAW ? Or even according to you, it would be interesting.

And how much slower ? Why ? WHERE ARE THE RULES about all that ? That's right, you have none, because there are none in the RAW. It's just you rown conviction, but as you can see, you are convincing no-one, because all the evidence in the RAW contradicts you.

 

[Maxperson]

A bunch of stuff

I had a response typed out, but it's not worth it. Go ahead and have your instantaneous 6ish second Star Trek teleports. Go ahead and have your light speed walking and running to beat instantaneous teleports. You do you. I'm done.

 

[plisnithus8]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is the speed of sound even the same in a D&D world and the real world ? Not sure, for example the speed of light on the Discworld is extremely slow due to its "abnormal magical field", does it affect the speed of sound as well ?

Also, the "boom" is extremely contained, it does full damage in a very small area, and nothing just beyond, so is it a normal "sound" boom originating from a point, or is magic generating a damaging boom just inside the area ? Is it audible beyond ? At what distance ?

The rules provide nothing about this, it's always about the DM inventing explanations in his campaign, if needs be.

You chose to argue that the speed of sound is different in 5e (which is never brought up in rules and honestly sounds — pun intended —far-fetched that no one has ever mentioned that thunder doesn’t follow lightning).

If someone feels that one effect (teleport) has a tiny delay, shouldn’t another effect (boom) that happens after the first also have a delay.

No one is advocating punishing casters. If a DM allowed a PC to use an explosive and PC failed to get far enough away from it, they’d still take damage. Same with a fireball spell that a caster selected a point only 10 feet away — they can’t choose to not take damage. The spell only does what it says it does.

Thunderstep’s duration is instantaneous. It causes teleportation. Teleportation happens instantly. The boom happens immediately after. If teleportation caused a time delay before a reappearance, the spell would say so.