Ignoring an Opponent

[omedon]

I don't think adding a rule for ignoring opponents is a very good idea. Not only does it lower the effectiveness of thieves I would be affraid of what it would to the difficulty of opponents. If Dragons and other powerful creatures could ignore their enemies it could make battles with them that much harder.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

#1: How do you know if the goblin is a rogue (with multiple attacks?) or not? I mean, rogue is their favored class!
What happens if the goblin is an assassin PrC (sneak attack = save or die after 3 rounds of watching you) or a 15th-level monk (quivering palm, touch attack = save or die 1/day) or a sorcerer who really like disintegrate or gate spells or something else that's quite powerful?
Or a psion (how would you tell)?
Or a psychic warrior who uses Inertial Armor?
What if it's something else that has been polymorphed, like a rust monster, carrion crawler, or dragon?
What if an intellect devourer is riding in it's skull?
What if a psion used mind switch on the goblin, and the psion's body is lying chained up in the next room?
What if a psion with a really good BAB (multi-class maybe?) is using control body on them?
What if the goblin has some really nasty magic/psionic item on them, like a blade of subtlety (with deathblade poison) that had invisiblity cast on it?
What if they're a lich who used change self to disguise their undead nature from you (paralysis won't help you fight that rogue in your bed!) or a psionic lich (drain 2 Con per touch?)
What if they're a soulknife who uses an ability forcing a Will save to drop your Con score?
What if they've got that blood-draining rapier on them (touch attack equals Con loss)?
What if he's got a bag full of stirges?
In a world filled with magic, you shouldn't take such risks.

#2: What if the rogue has the Oppurtunist ability? The goblin breaks a jar containing a green (?) slime at you (melee touch attack, the goblin will probably hit you), and then the rogue sneak attacks you? Loss of Con + sneak attack = bad news for your fighter.

 

[jontherev]

Ignore? Sure. I think that's fine, but you would be considered 'near' helpless imo. What I mean by 'near' helpless, is that I would just deny your dex instead of making it a 1, but all the other conditions of helpless would apply. So, anyone else besides the person you are ignoring automatically hits and crits you, if they try a cdg (as a full round action). Then you make a fort save at dc 10 + damage dealt or go tell your buddies to go look for a high level cleric.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I would say ignore and suffer an AOO and invisibility bonus to Goblin... but on the other hand its so easy just to kill the goblin ... lop his head off and then give the Rogue the attention he deserves. 20th lvl rogues have those Flick of the Wrist and Bluff and Sneak attack stuff anyway... your bound to suffer Sneak attacks anyway.

 

[RaZZer99]

I think it would be plausible to ignore some opponents. For example, in a game a while back, the halfling thief/mage was sneaking around by himself and chanced upon a big mean lizardman. He and the lizardman are toe to toe. What does he do? He lets his little ferret familiar out to flank the lizardman. Now I thought that was a cheap tatic (and stupid, could have easily killed the poor thing) and ruled that the lizardman could ignore such a puny creature. I don't think a weasle justifies giving the thief sneak attack damage. I gave massive to hit bonuses to the ferret, and once the ferret actually hit, the lizardman turned around and skewerd the creature.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Again with ignoring opponent.

Look, let's say a commoner and a rogue flank a knight in heavy armor.

The Knight decides that he is going to ignore the commoner.

The commoner simply pushes the knight and now he isn't only flanked, he's off balance as well!

The rogue can sneak attack.

The commoner could also hit the knight over the head with a stick. Would it damage the knight? Unlikely but it'll surely distract him. Again, the rogue can sneak attack.

The moral of the story? You can't "ignore" someone who is bashing on you. If you don't avoid his blow, you'll be jerked around by the impact anyway and it'll be easier for the other opponent to hit you.

If you don't believe me, just engage two friends in a pillowfight and "ignore" one opponent. See what happen. Even if the opponent you choose to ignore is your little sister, you'll find it hard to avoid being distracted when she'll jump on your back screaming!

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Now I thought that was a cheap tatic (and stupid, could have easily killed the poor thing) and ruled that the lizardman could ignore such a puny creature.

And of course the puny creature being ignored just stood there and tried to to bite the ankle of the lizardman.

It didn't take advantage of the fact that the lizardman was ignoring it to jump on his head and bite his ear, or something like that.

There are plenty of ways to distract someone hellbent on ignoring you, thus granting the flanking bonus to your friend.

You should have skewered the ferret right from the beginning instead of needlessly introducing a new mechanic on the fly.

 

[Uller]

Over the weekend I was at a friend's house and he was rough housing with our two three-year-old boys. My friend weighs about 250 lbs. Each boy, less than 40. My friend could easily ignore one while picking up and throwing the other onto a nearby couch.

Now...I know what you are saying...rough housing isn't fighting. Give the two kids knives, make them know how to use them and have them going for the groin, behind the knees, etc and then let him ignore one of them...

Okay...make him a Balor with a DR of 30/+3 and our two "halfling rougues" completely unable to harm him(even on a crit). There are times in D&D when an opponent simply cannot damage you(or distract you in any reasonable way).

If I wanted to introduce an ignoring rule:

On your turn, you may declare that you are ignoring attacks from one or more particular foes. This gives the following benefits and penalties:

1) An ignored foe cannot be counted by allies for gaining flanking bonuses or any other similar advantage.

2) An ignored foe is effectively invisible when he attacks you.

3) All hits by an ignored foe are critical threats.

4) If an ignored foe does even 1 hp of damage to you, you no longer are ignoring him and you cannot ignore him again until you've taken 2 turns.

Why 3? Because if your foe really cannot hurt you, then even crits should not hurt you...otherwise, you best not ignore him.

That said...I wouldn't use such a rule...I only use house rules if I deem them necessary to keeping the game fun(or will make the game significantly more fun). This is no more necessary for keeping the game fun than a more realistic hp model, IMO.

Edit: Oh....And I know what IceBear is saying: Then why don't invisible characters automatically critical threat on every hit? The difference is that an attack is more than a single swing of a sword. Presumably, as soon as an invisible attacker makes his first move, the defender begins to twist/dodge/duck/etc. to avoid being hit by the unseen foe.

 

[IceBear]

Again, the problem with allowing an ignored opponent to do significantly more damage because he's being ignored is it introduces rule inconsistencies when an invisible opponent attacks. You either let ingored and invisible opponents do significant damage (and thus beefing invisibilty too much) or you treat ignoring like invisibilty currently (and thus making ignoring too easy and weakening the rogue too much).

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

That said...I wouldn't use such a rule...I only use house rules if I deem them necessary to keeping the game fun(or will make the game significantly more fun). This is no more necessary for keeping the game fun than a more realistic hp model, IMO.

Agreed

IceBear