I'm a bad DM part 2

Am I a bad DM by trying to kill the party with a BBEG

  • 1- Yes you're a Rat Bastard and I wouldn't play with you as DM

    Votes: 5 4.1%
  • 2- It's low, and I'd complain but I would still play

    Votes: 11 8.9%
  • 3- Neutral. Meh...I don't care either way

    Votes: 30 24.4%
  • 4- I kinda agree with this way of thinking

    Votes: 41 33.3%
  • 5- You should do this!!!!! Finish Them!!!!!!

    Votes: 36 29.3%


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RatPunk said:
I am running Hall of Harsh Reflections at the moment as well. In the adventure as written, the Mind Flayer does make a brief appearance to the party about half way through the adventure, then retreats back to his lair to await them at the end. If this occured in Gundark's game, then yes, the party should most definately have known what they were going to face and prepared accordingly.

And yes in the game that I ran the Mind Flayer did in fact make the said appearance. I'll also say that yes the party didn't use this knowledge.
 

Gundark said:
And yes in the game that I ran the Mind Flayer did in fact make the said appearance. I'll also say that yes the party didn't use this knowledge.

Then, in this case, I would say that they have nobody to blame but themselves.

And just for the record, I'm not a killer DM, either. I have pulled punches on more than one occasion. But, if the party isn't going to use their knowledge to plan ahead accordingly, then they're just asking for it.
 

I don't know if I'm totally ruthless with most big bad evil guys. Not every boss is a super genius, some can just be 10 Int, or even 8, and just be combat savvy. I'm not going to play 11 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, 8 Charisma beatsticks as 18s across the board mentally because thats cheesy and unbelievable.
Now with the Mind Flayers' assumed age and boffo mental stats and his (I'm assuming on this, haven't run it) "boss" status in the module, you've got every right to play this guy as a diabolical hardass who knows and exploits common class weaknesses like poor saves. In fact, I'd think you'd be a little out of line if you didn't.
 

Fishbone said:
I don't know if I'm totally ruthless with most big bad evil guys. Not every boss is a super genius

But every mind flayer is a super genius! I do think they are under CR'd, particularly the psionic version (CR 8, but 9 levels of psion manifesting plus SR, mind blast, brain eating, awesome stats, etc!).
 


I don't think this makes you a terrible GM, but it is a little concerning that you pull punches on some fights but not on 'level boss' combats. Do the players always know when they're about to face a BBEG? If they don't know or they're not sure, it doesn't seem quite equitable to expect them to be comfortable with this. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with this style of play.
 

Gold Roger said:
This stuff happens. Could they have known that there's a Mind Flayer. If yes, they definitely should have prepared.

Mind you, in the encounter it was all over in round 1 when everyone failed their save against stunning. There isn't really much you can do to protect yourself against stunning (except buff your saves), and even then everyone rolling badly can just mess things up terribly. It also isn't always possible to stay so spread out that the psionic blast cone can't get everyone at once.

Preparing for a dragon is generally much easier (energy protection, buffing etc), but if the dice are against you a nasty area attack can wreck everything.

Cheers
 

I do not think there is really anything wrong with your DMing style.

Even the general mooks I am used to fighting tend to fight what seems to be most dangerous to them -- sometimes that concentrates the melee attacks and sometimes that spreads them out. Spellcasters always make decent educated guesses about who will be most vulnerable to their best spells, and that can cut both ways as well -- I have seen PC Paladins with sky high Will saves garner the lion's share of Hold Person spells, much to the enemy's disappointment.

I would say that I rather dislike the design of this particular BBEG monster because that stunning effect can be so randomly overwhelming. It is quite long as stun effects go IIRC. I think that is something I would consider changing as a DM, but I do not see you did anything wrong here.

However I am wondering a bit about the PCs. What did the non-stunned members of the party do for their Round 1? With half their comrades stunned a Wall or Web or similar spell could have slowed the BBEG down enough to make a strategic withdrawal with most of the party.

I have a general gripe that most players fail to appreciate when and how to use defensive tactics, so they never bother to prepare for the day half the party fails their Will save (or find themselves Entangled, etc.). Like this day.
 

I actually put neutral as my response. The BBEG should work effectively toward his goals which may or may not include killing the PCs. If it does involve killing, and the BBEG is smart enough to be clever about it, then you should cut loose. And if his goal is something other than killing the PCs, like capturing them, again he should cut loose.

In a 3.5 version of the slaver campaign I ran, the slavelords were well prepared for the first confrontation with the PCs and it would have been an easy TPK if that had been their goal. But it wasn't. Their goal was capture and the PCs all ended up suitably caught, drugged, and tortured as the slavelords desired.
But the PCs were more ready for the second confrontation against a subset of the slavelords who were harried by the mob and their attempt to flee the city. Of the 5 slavelords confronted, only one escaped the PCs. And that's pretty much what should have happened.
 

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