D&D General I'm a Fighter, not a Lover: Why the 1e Fighter was so Awesome

[Nikosandros]

There are no rules for bards that are being used until after you have finished dual classing. There's no difference between your dual class fighter/thief who wants to EVENTUALLY be a bard, and my dual class fighter/thief who has no intention of being a bard.

You have to be a dual class fighter/thief to be a bard, but that doesn't reach back in time to alter the dual class rules. It just means that the player is planning ahead to become a Brad, er Bard. At the point where the player wants to become a bard, he needs to check to see if he has qualified to do so, which means thief of the proper level range and fighter of the proper level range, among the other requirements.

I'm familiar with this position (which is reasonable), but I disagree. You decide to be a bard at the time of creation. You must meet the bard's requirements and the you begin your fighter levers, later you switch to thief and finally to fully-fledged bard.

 

[Minigiant]

i think people would cry bloody murder if the 5e fighter was redesigned to have half the innate advantages like 1e fighter did

I once wondered a simple Hero class that got to double up on benefits from other ability scores


Strength modifier to per level
Dexterity modifier to err ummm ... untrained checks
Intelligence modifier to AC
Constitution modifier to all saving throws
Wisdom modifier to damage rolls
Charisma modifier to attack rolls

 

[ECMO3]

I presumed the 15 dexterity requirement in the PHB appendix superseded the dual classing 17 score requirement. The class is already hard enough to qualify for as is.

It is a 15 to start as a Bard, but a 17 to dual class into thief, but in 1E you could lose points in your abilities, this most commonly happened from aging. So you needed a 17 to start as a Thief, but once you became a Thief it could drop to 15 and you could still become a Bard. After you became a Bard it could drop even further.

 

[ECMO3]

Let's be honest- nobody really knows how the Bard class is supposed to work. Snarf has probably done the most in-depth examination of it that I've seen, but there's still a lot of questions (like Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves becoming Bards) that I don't think were ever answered.

But there might be a Sage Advice on it that I missed.

Going strictly RAW the way for a Half-Elf Bard is the Reincarnate spell. You start out as a Human do 5-7 levels of Fighter, then dual class to thief then at some point before becoming a Bard Reincarnate into a half-Elf.

Then you would be a Dual Class Fighter/Thief and could eventually become a Half Elf Bard.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Going strictly RAW the way for a Half-Elf Bard is the Reincarnate spell. You start out as a Human do 5-7 levels of Fighter, then dual class to thief then at some point before becoming a Bard Reincarnate into a half-Elf.

Then you would be a Dual Class Fighter/Thief and could eventually become a Half Elf Bard.

The use of reincarnate for PCs was always ... interesting.

The Rogue's Gallery (1980) had some personalities in the back. Of the eighteen, fourteen were humans (because Gygax, of course). But of the four that weren't, one was a lizardman fighter, and one was a centaur fighter.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm familiar with this position (which is reasonable), but I disagree. You decide to be a bard at the time of creation. You must meet the bard's requirements and the you begin your fighter levers, later you switch to thief and finally to fully-fledged bard.

"Bards begin play as fighters, and they must remain exclusively fighters until they have achieved at least the 5th level of experience. Anytime thereafter, and in any event prior to attaining the 8th level, they must change their class to that of thieves. Again, sometime between 5th and 9th level of ability, bards must leave off thieving and begin clerical studies as druids; but at this time they are actually bards and under druidical tutelage. Bards must fulfill the requirements in all the above classes before progressing to Bards Table."

It doesn't say all requirements except for the 17 dex. The 17 or 18 dex is a class requirement of thief when a fighter is dual classing into it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm thinking the 1e bard is the Wimp Lo of AD&D 1e.

"We intentionally designed it to make no sense and be bad as a joke."

 

[Nikosandros]

"Bards begin play as fighters, and they must remain exclusively fighters until they have achieved at least the 5th level of experience. Anytime thereafter, and in any event prior to attaining the 8th level, they must change their class to that of thieves. Again, sometime between 5th and 9th level of ability, bards must leave off thieving and begin clerical studies as druids; but at this time they are actually bards and under druidical tutelage. Bards must fulfill the requirements in all the above classes before progressing to Bards Table."

It doesn't say all requirements except for the 17 dex. The 17 or 18 dex is a class requirement of thief when a fighter is dual classing into it.

But the bard is not dual classing so the character does not have to meet the requirement for dual-classing.

 

[mixmastashizz]

But the bard is not dual classing so the character does not have to meet the requirement for dual-classing.

Yeah, I know 1e has a reputation for being obtuse at times, but in this case I think it's as simple as reading the requirements on the box. It states the requirements to be a bard, then tells you how to become a bard and thats it.

 

[Lanefan]

Bard rolls fighter HP up to 7th level, so the same as a fighter until then.
Then the fighter stops rolling hit dice at level 9,and no longer gets con bonus for HP. Meanwhile the bard as thief is rolling 1d6 + con bonus for another 8 levels, when the fighter gets 3HP.

Huh. I always thought hit point advancement stopped when you two-classed until your second class surpassed your first. Thus ehre the thief side would only provide 1d6+Con bonus, when the Thief side got to 8th level and surpassed the Fighter side.