I'm annoyed

[Psychic Warrior]

I don't blame you MerricB. It seems it is some people's job around here to piss in the cornflakes of others.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

And then we have the accusations of "moderator favoritism" ...

Yeah, it’s never a nice “thank you” is it?

I pretty much agree with everything Henry says and would like to add, only in a generation about threads getting locked cause of arguments, that it takes two to tango and both sides are usually equally guilty.

 

[William Ronald]

This seems as good a place as any...

You know what annoys me? That when someone who is a full-time employee from Wizards posts, or someone who has worked for them in the past, it's the mission of someone, and the specific individuals vary every time, to tear them down verbally. It's not enough to say, "I disagree," or "I'm not sure where you get that from" - it's accusations of lying, arrogance, stupidity, or even malicious conduct.

What gets me almost as much as people who, being fed up with seeing these WotC employees attacked, start launching their own counter-attacks, which makes things twice as bad, causing threads to devolve. And it is never a strong demarcation; it's always a snide comment here, a blurted generalization there, and the next thing we mods know, it's yet another thread down the tubes.

And then we have the accusations of "moderator favoritism" - because we call down the Wotc detractors, we're "being corporate mouthpieces"; when we admonish the defenders, we're "condoning WotC-bashing." I swear I've heard it both.

And you know what? All we mods want is a civil thread. We want a place that WotC employees, 3rd party publishers, fans, can enjoy, share their thoughts, share a few laughs and discussions about their favorite hobby, without getting their verbal teeth knocked in. It's a wonder people like Charles, Ryan, Monte, Mike, and Chris P even come around here any more, when people want to dump on their character the second they utter an opinion contrary to popular opinion. Ladies and Gentlemen, if you disagree, say so! Tell them you think their statement is incorrect, and why! Read them the proving stats! No stats to back you up? Tell them your impassioned belief! If you feel tempted to slight someone's credentials, or their motivations, DON'T do it! It doesn't take impugning someone's person to disagree with their statements.

To hell with favoritism, I want a good discussion!

That's what annoys me.

Henry, I concur with your analysis of the problem. Perhaps it might be a good idea to put your remarks or something like it in the Rules post.

I have noticed a tendency of some posters to respond to some industry professionals with more than healthy skepticism. It is one thing to ask for proof of a claim, and another to state or imply that someone is a corporate shill. I think we have to give other posters -- whether they are new members or industry representatives the respect that we would ask for ourselves. Do industry representatives have their own agendas and opinions? Yes, but most of us have our own opinions and want to see various things from these boards and different companies. However, I think we can still be civil while evaluating a claim from someone who posts on the boards.

It seems that we are having a rash of rudeness on the boards of late. Maybe it is me, but it seems that we are seeing more closed threads. I don't want people to feel uncomfortable about posting here. The whole concept of these boards is to discuss a hobby that we love and related matters. So, I think that keeping a civil atmosphere helps keep discussions on track. Perhaps a good rule for posters here is to be considerate of each other. I try NOT to say anything to others that I would not want anyone to say about me. It doesn't matter if a poster is a company president or someone who has just started gaming. There is still another human being looking at a thread, who might be hurt by someone else's comments.

I think we have to also assume that when a person makes a statement that can be misinterpreted the best thing is to politely ask for some clarification. (I have taken a few statistics courses, and I realize it is very easy to make any number of mistakes. Or to use a quote from Mark Twain that gets some laughs from some statistics professors I have known -- "There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics." )


MerricB, don't let this upset you too much. I doubt that there is a way to please everyone on the boards. Some people may have issues with different companies and personalities. I have seen the character of some people on these boards attacked in the past. It seems that instead of shedding light on subjects that we are interested in, personal attacks and hostility to fellow posters leads to anger, frustration, and closed threads.

While I respect our moderators, I don't envy their jobs. I appreciate the efforts, and hope that we can maybe shed more light and less heat on the thigns we talk about on the boards. (Perhaps we can discuss a few ways to tone down some of the disagreements. As a long time member of the boards, I don't want anyone who posts at EN World to feel uncomfortable about posting here.)

 

[diaglo]

wow... didn't expect it to go that far over the edge.

sorry if i had anything to do with it. i know Charles answered my question. and Turjan's.


diaglo "who is a scribe on the TSR forum" Ooi

 

[Zenodotus of Ephesus]

I'm annoyed.

I'm anewshound!

 

[Zenodotus of Ephesus]

This seems as good a place as any...

You know what annoys me? That when someone who is a full-time employee from Wizards posts, or someone who has worked for them in the past, it's the mission of someone, and the specific individuals vary every time, to tear them down verbally. It's not enough to say, "I disagree," or "I'm not sure where you get that from" - it's accusations of lying, arrogance, stupidity, or even malicious conduct.

What gets me almost as much as people who, being fed up with seeing these WotC employees attacked, start launching their own counter-attacks, which makes things twice as bad, causing threads to devolve. And it is never a strong demarcation; it's always a snide comment here, a blurted generalization there, and the next thing we mods know, it's yet another thread down the tubes.

And then we have the accusations of "moderator favoritism" - because we call down the Wotc detractors, we're "being corporate mouthpieces"; when we admonish the defenders, we're "condoning WotC-bashing." I swear I've heard it both.

And you know what? All we mods want is a civil thread. We want a place that WotC employees, 3rd party publishers, fans, can enjoy, share their thoughts, share a few laughs and discussions about their favorite hobby, without getting their verbal teeth knocked in. It's a wonder people like Charles, Ryan, Monte, Mike, and Chris P even come around here any more, when people want to dump on their character the second they utter an opinion contrary to popular opinion. Ladies and Gentlemen, if you disagree, say so! Tell them you think their statement is incorrect, and why! Read them the proving stats! No stats to back you up? Tell them your impassioned belief! If you feel tempted to slight someone's credentials, or their motivations, DON'T do it! It doesn't take impugning someone's person to disagree with their statements.

To hell with favoritism, I want a good discussion!

That's what annoys me.

Start handing out bans for that sort of bad behavior. Three day bans, then one week bans, then one month bans, etc. Bet it'll clear up fairly quickly and people with a real need to add their input will find a way to do it politely. It's pretty obvious that something needs to change when mild-mannered folks like you (Henry) and the eternal optimist (MerricB) start yanking your hair out.

 

[Henry]

Start handing out bans for that sort of bad behavior.

Oh, we do. That's where charges of favoritism come from.

Often times, it's not a clear line that's crossed. As I said, it's a snide comment here, an over-reaching statement there, and it's a fine line to walk between making draconian statements very ten posts like a peacock, and letting insults slide. When you're checking in on a conversation over the course of a work day, in an hour's time you leave a well-mannered, yet slightly edgy, thread and come back to a knock-down drag out that, taking proper time to fix, would take two hours to edit, ban, warn, and steer back to topic. Sometimes, closing the thread is the only practical solution to a sticky problem. If we catch someone outright getting nasty, they're temp-banned, pure and simple, and the repeat offenders get perma-banned.

I'm about to start a policy of getting MUCH harsher on people insulting one another on WotC-related threads, even if it means I get the usual, "you mods are are playing favorites" comments all over again. I for one have a patience that's wearing thin with people skirting polite boundaries.

Thanks to everyone letting me preach to the choir for a minute.

 

[Arnwyn]

I'm quite surprised that the usual suspects aren't called out more by the moderators. All I usually see is a weak/lame "guys, tone it down" or some other bit of weaksauce "warning".

The usual suspects need to be called out publicly by the moderators in the offending thread (along with specific quotes/examples when calling out names, to help mitigate [though impossible to avoid] any accusations of favoritism).

I don't think 'behind the scenes' does it, IMHO.

(Oh: Good work to the moderators, whatever you do!)

 

[Tolen Mar]

This seems as good a place as any...

You know what annoys me? That when someone who is a full-time employee from Wizards posts, or someone who has worked for them in the past, it's the mission of someone, and the specific individuals vary every time, to tear them down verbally. It's not enough to say, "I disagree," or "I'm not sure where you get that from" - it's accusations of lying, arrogance, stupidity, or even malicious conduct.

What gets me almost as much as people who, being fed up with seeing these WotC employees attacked, start launching their own counter-attacks, which makes things twice as bad, causing threads to devolve. And it is never a strong demarcation; it's always a snide comment here, a blurted generalization there, and the next thing we mods know, it's yet another thread down the tubes.

And then we have the accusations of "moderator favoritism" - because we call down the Wotc detractors, we're "being corporate mouthpieces"; when we admonish the defenders, we're "condoning WotC-bashing." I swear I've heard it both.

And you know what? All we mods want is a civil thread. We want a place that WotC employees, 3rd party publishers, fans, can enjoy, share their thoughts, share a few laughs and discussions about their favorite hobby, without getting their verbal teeth knocked in. It's a wonder people like Charles, Ryan, Monte, Mike, and Chris P even come around here any more, when people want to dump on their character the second they utter an opinion contrary to popular opinion. Ladies and Gentlemen, if you disagree, say so! Tell them you think their statement is incorrect, and why! Read them the proving stats! No stats to back you up? Tell them your impassioned belief! If you feel tempted to slight someone's credentials, or their motivations, DON'T do it! It doesn't take impugning someone's person to disagree with their statements.

To hell with favoritism, I want a good discussion!

That's what annoys me.

Man, Henry, this should be stuck where more people can see it. I dont normally come down this way myself...

 

[Truth Seeker]

Yes, yes...you are.

I'm anewshound!